Be careful. That’s pretty close-minded of you. You gotta be open to discussion. An effective counter argument isn’t just " That’s what you think, I think different so I’m right ".
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hows that any different than what hes doing? at least im willing to acknowlege the difference in opinion…
He’s using facts and logic to back up his points. In your post, I didn’t see any facts or logic. I just saw “i think different and i’m right.”
I will admit that acknowledging differences in opinions is definitely important-- but you also have to keep an eye on other aspects of any conversation to truly reach some form of common ground.
And your armor is hot pink with baby blue fur by my definition so we can argue about that if you want too.
The issue with this argument is that BOTH sides of the argument are using different definitions of P2W (and different from people on their side) and saying “I’m right you are wrong because it does/doesn’t match MY definition”. It is a pointless argument to be had at this point since it always devolves to this.
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where is pay to win officially defined ? i dont see any facts just opinions his opinions from anecdotal evidence that he has seen. Nowhere is there a single FACT in his argument
Correction, I shouldn’t have of said facts. I’ve been up for far too long so I’m a little tired. What I should’ve said is that he’s using reasoning. He’s saying what leads him to believe what he believes.
In any argument, you have to take into account the other person’s reasoning along with your own. The current issue is that neither of you share the same view on what it means for a game to be pay to win. to get to a solid understanding, you both need to figure out just what you both think it means. Or discuss further with either definition.
yeah thats why i said
Not exactly. You acknowledged the difference in opinion, yes. But instead of carrying on with that acknowledgement, you went on to say “But because I believe this, I’m right.”
That’s like saying “Oh, well I get that you think that hot dogs can be considered subs, I think that they shouldn’t be considered subs. And therefore I am right”.
When you acknowledge something someone says, and then follow up with “i believe this so i’m right”, you immediately throw away that acknowledgement.
You’re listening with your ears covered. In order to properly discuss an issue, you have to listen, ask questions, and respond. Give a genuine back and forth instead of just labeling yourself as the “winner” of the argument before it’s done.
where do i say im right your wrong? i state my definition and elaborate on it.
It’s essentially what your statement comes off as. Atleast to me. However, I could very well be wrong, and this could be another scenario in which we’re discussing pointless semantics. And if that just so happens to be the case, then I apologize.
We are, this entire discussion is based on the definition of pay to win but when there is no official definition we have to go off of its all opinion and semantics.
Buying BoE epics gives you a slight boost for X weeks.
All the gear in the world means diddly squat if you are clueless at your class.
Buy all top end BoEs and then the egotistical “I am god because of my shinies” tries high end Arena, RBGs, M+ or Mythic raids.
Their team will abuse you to no end before kicking you to the moon.
Pay to win means that you pay real life cash for items that: 1. simply aren’t available to non-paying customers, or 2. are only available after a long time-gate to non-paying customers. Considering that many of us make enough in-game gold every week to simply pay gold for a carry, do you see any requirement for real life money for your above question?
For that matter, you are not stopped by a pay-wall for any more chances at items as in your example. You can chain-run as many +10s as you want all week long with no requirement aside from having the key for that dungeon and getting 4 other people to run it with you. So no. Not a P2W game.
However, if we go with your example, then any multi-player game is a P2W game because you can pay another player or players that are better than you to help get whatever you want.
I am sorry, but this looks just dumb. According to this - ANY game is P2W since I can ALWAYS pay somebody to, for example, level for me. Or carry me through a dungeon. So what? Where is the ‘win’ here?
Ultimately, it is your choice to pay or play, like in every game. Blizzard (or WoW) has really nothing to do with that. As a matter of fact, Bliz is trying to prevent it - like punishing account sharing, etc. Unfortunately, it is rather hard to prevent people from making deals with friends to be carried through content. But honestly - if this is your thing, why play at all? Just go do something you actually enjoy.
PS> I feel the whole concept is really stupid. You pay to play (subscription) and then you pay for somebody else to carry you. What are you really ‘winning’? Just save yourself the money…
It’s not p2w, but it can be disheartening. Coming back after leaving at Cata, wow tokens are one of the key features I hate that they implemented, as well as the growing shop. When I left I think the only shop items they had was character transfers and such. I think it all started with a pet Panda that they were doing for some charity or another, they must have saw the profit and decided to add more. The only “pro” to this is you can farm gold, buy a token, get said store stuff.
Leveling takes hardly any time at all now, you can easily get up there within a weeks time if you stick to dungeon and pvp leveling with heirlooms, quicker if you did korraks. Honestly I refuse to pay for the boost, I’d rather buy 3 mounts as they would take longer to farm gold for than leveling. I think its at a fair price for those who may work a lot and want to jump in to current content. They still have to level 110-120 so theyre not paying for a maxed character.
Even without tokens though, there could be ability for people to sell runs for gold, so that argument is null in my opinion.
P2W gives people extreme advantage, and like you said loot boxes. If wow ever implements those I’m out. I got tired of them in actual f2p/p2w games and came back to sub style with wow.
#1 you can buy wow gold to get m+ carries for the rng lootbox on tuesdays.
#2 you can buy wow gold to pay guilds for heroic raid carries.
its not pay to win at all.
No you aren’t.
You are creating an arbitrary line in the sand for what makes one “winning” in WoW based on a narrative you want to push.
Getting gear in WoW is a joke. But you want to call that “winning”. Why?
Please cite this traditional definition. Because the traditional definition I know for “Pay2Win” is not being met.
Thanks for adding another one to my list.
“there’s these other games that are more p2w, therefore WoW isn’t.”
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Not pw2 in any sense of the word. You can only buy a carry once a week, if you decide to get a carry instead of bettering yourself as a player… not to mention the astronomical cost of buying a carry every single week for even 3 weeks in a row.
And… you can reach max ilvl without buying anything just as fast as anyone else with mythic+… Literally 5 ilvl off of cap by doing an easy as f dungeon if you have a triple digit IQ
These people who always cry “WOW IS P2W” have never experienced the horror that is true P2W.
RIFT before it went “Buy t3 Gear Now!”, really breaks my heart.
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