You even used the big difference here though. Please show me right now where I can buy with whatever an IL 460 piece of gear.
purchase m+ or mythic runs with tokens? mythic raiders dont get auto 460 either by just completing content they get lucky with a titan forge as well, your still receiving the best gear in the game by paying for runs.
Except no. I’m arguing on the basis of what people historically mean when they say P2W.
You’re the one coming in here and proclaiming that games that have an illegal gold market (aka all of them) are also P2W.
That isn’t what P2W means. That’s just cheating. P2W means the devs have implemented a way to legally exchange real money for a step ahead in the game.
Needing to buy the game in the first place doesn’t make it P2W.
Needing to buy a computer to play the game on doesn’t make it P2W.
Your mom telling you that you’re a winner no matter what doesn’t mean that her definition of “win” makes tokens less P2W.
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I tried Neverwinter a few years ago, and yep, you could buy potions in the store that would take you from zero to 100% health in seconds and use them anywhere.
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Since you seem to not comprehend the issue I have presented I will instead ask you to do a task for me. Link me one armory of someone wearing a 460 IL piece of gear (that isn’t the Heart of Azeroth).
You might be looking awhile.
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would it be called winning? probably not, as the person has not “won” anything by paying for the run, they “win” something by running the content, and while yes this could indirectly be described as “pay to win” since a player “wins” a victory by completing the raid/dungeon (just purely from a technical base analysis), it can more directly be labeled pay to play as one “wins” by playing, and we all pay to get above lvl 20 and do raids/dungeons at end game anyways. but people who don’t do anything are not “winning” which you need for “pay” (which they do) to win (which they do not). there is no victory there, no struggle either, which is the concrete dictionary definition of a win/winning. STO (star trek online) is pay to win as better ships mean higher win rates and the best come from loot boxes bought with real money. but in a game like WoW where the drop rates are static for everyone and so low no one every really has an “advantage” because 1 drop in 3 million is still the same as 00.01% in 1,000 (or is it? never was quite good at percentages and decimals) but regardless it’s abysmally low for everybody and still luck based.
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Since you seem to be creating an argument about a piece of gear that doesn’t even exist what is your point?
Its not creating, 460 pieces literally dont exist outside HoA lol.
i understand that, why did he say
The point is that I cannot buy anything that is better than anything in game. The point YOU brought up and I quoted. No matter how much money I throw at the game it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to ever guarantee I am “better” than someone else.
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So you can prove your flawed argument.
Can you down the final boss on mythic without spending a dime? Yes? Then it’s not pay to win.
How can you not grasp this simple concept?
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Also carries are banned, i dont know why the other guy said it isnt, the catch is that real game carries are banned, not ingame gold, since its just basically another ingame transaction, whatever happens with that transaction blizz doesnt care, thats their stance.
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And spending IRL money to get carried is…?
Why does need to be a guarantee? just like in battlefront from my example you can get the gun but if you cant aim for crap it doesnt matter. and guess what everyone still said that was pay to win.
which part is flawed sir?
At this point it depends on who you ask lmao
I’ve been in this thread for hours and everyone here seems to have a different opinion.
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for starters the 460 example, and secondly the tokens part, yes you can buy tokens and then sell them for ingame gold then for carries, yet you cant directly buy the items, you are at the mercy of RNG while at the same time you CAN get all of those items without paying a single dime, aka nothing gear wise is behind a cash wall, people in this thread are just twisting words to fit their narrative cause they certainly never played a real p2w game.
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you mean like mobile pay to win games? and the 460 example is only me not knowing what max titan forge is currently. You can get lucky just like everyone else while paying for a run.
I believe that WOW is not inherently pay to win by design (but i’m sure Activision wouldn’t mind).
The issue is a playerbase problem since players are selling and buying the carries and Blizzard has allowed it because they probably view it in financial terms as a boost to their token sales.