Is WoW P2W? The answer:

TLDR: It’s subjective, ill-defined, and the perception of a binary variable is overly simplistic.

Saying WoW is P2W is like saying black pepper is spicy. While true, in a world with ghost peppers and 5-million-scoville extracts, saying it’s spicy doesn’t convey a lot of information. Similarly, WoW’s P2W elements aren’t comparable to how P2W many other games are. Let’s first define some terms. There’s no universally accepted definition, but here is my definition that I think is broad enough to capture how most people think of the term.

Pay-to-Win (P2W): The degree to which an advantage can be bought monetarily.

The words “an advantage” and “winning” are interchangeable, however they aren’t well defined. Even if Blizzard removed tokens and only sold transmogs, a player who views collecting transmogs as “winning” will perceive the game as being P2W. The only scenario one could categorically say that WoW was not P2W would be if absolutely nothing could be purchased monetarily.

Assuming we agree on this definition of P2W, we can say that WoW is at minimum, a little P2W for at least someone. Personally, I view WoW as being very low on the P2W scale.

Why I view WoW as not very P2W:

My view is largely a result of what I consider “winning”. I see the capability to clear difficult content as winning. I don’t mean the ability to have already cleared difficult content. What I mean is that if you stuck a mediocre random player in a +25, no amount of money can be spent so that the mediocre player is able to compensate for their lack of skill. You can’t buy your way out of getting 1-shot and no amount of gear is going to compensate for a bad rotation. I’ve seen many players in dungeons who are essentially decked out in max gear doing 4-5K overall DPS while getting hit by everything. These people are outperformed by average players who are sometimes significantly less geared. Spending endless money is also going to do very little for an incompetent tank or healer.

If WoW were the only game with an in-game shop then it would universally be considered very P2W, but WoW doesn’t exist in a vacuum and there are plenty of games where you can effectively purchase enough power such that your grandparents could pick up the game and clear difficult content. That isn’t WoW.

The nature of how ‘power’ is purchased in WoW also matters. You can’t just immediately open up the shop and buy the most powerful items. You can be carried, but you have to wait for people not only to clear the content, but to be strong enough to carry you. When 9.2 drops you can’t buy your way to mythic raid gear immediately. Even when it’s available certain items aren’t guaranteed. There’s also an element of trust where you have to deal with a third party and feel comfortable enough to reveal at least some information to them. This alone deters many people from boosting. The existence of the boost is still a P2W element, but these differences are some reasons that I consider WoW not very P2W.

Once again, the degree to which you view WoW as P2W is informed by your personal definition of winning. There is a range to P2W and limiting it to “yes” or “no” overlooks a lot of nuance. In closing, however P2W you think WoW is, we should be cognizant that it’s in flux and remains only a single patch from becoming unambiguously P2W. It would only take strong items to be available in the AH for this change to occur. Because no new mechanics or systems need to be added, WoW could become heavily P2W in the blink of an eye.

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I’m still going with “no” for three reasons:

1.) You have to rely on a third party not associated with Blizzard.
2.) There’s nothing you can buy from that third party that’s not available for free.
3.) It doesn’t grant you a true victory. Your paid for gear and achievements can’t get you into the best mythic guild or top pvp rankings because you have to have skill to back it up.

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This is the most rational sensible post I’ve ever seen on this topic. If only all the others understood this instead of just being angry and calling for everything to be removed/banned.

You, elf druid. You’re doing good work! Stay classy :grin:

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I’m pretty sure that the vast majority of people that complain about wow being “pay to win” haven’t actually played a game that is truly pay to win.

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Everybody has their own definition of what qualifies as “pay to win”. If you declare that it is impossible to actually “win” a videogame, and thus wow cannot be “pay to win” (and according to this definition no games are pay to win), that’s pretty much whitewashing grey areas that exist within the current system.

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Therein lies the issue. It is unlikely that everyone will agree on one person’s definition, as a number of other threads on this topic have shown.

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Basically. I always give World of tnaks the early years as my example.

Gold ammo.

Meets all my critertia. My…being the keyword.

  1. In store only. Later it was clan war rewards but…the amount given was not massive. so to win in clan wars you HAD TO buy the ammo. as the other clans were doing it.

  2. you can be terribad at the game…and it get wins in your favor. they hit hard, they penetrated armour better.

WoT had shot locations to factor in. Per “racial” tank. On a german tank you aimed here, not there for best effect. Russian tank you aimed there, not here. US tanks? yep, different sweet spots.

gold ammo bypassed that. just get the reticle on the target, blow it up.

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Ayyyy another WoT player you still play that junk or just used too play. Will say WoT became reallly annoying with gold tanks within the last few years too me, well “last few year” to me more like 7-8 years.

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Why can’t we just let this topic die.

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I’m really curious on what started it all reallly. I’m almost certain it was because of a youtuber suddenly seeing it as a problem and now there’s plenty of parrots headin here to complain.

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I think it stemmed from Lost Ark. Wouldn’t doubt someone called their game p2w and they started pointing fingers everywhere else.

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Wow is p2w with extra steps.

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It’s not subjective or ill defined really.
Getting hung up on the word “winning” is kinda stupid because we all know where the term comes from. It’s a slang like teabag. You aren’t actually making any tea in halo or cod. P2W spawned from those games which have PvP and allow you to purchase really powerful gear which basically ensures your victory over most opponents. The games that allow for spending an absurd amount of money for a constantly growing advantage. Where victory often goes to whichever of the two players spent more.

P2W a simple definition
If I can’t pay you to increase my power. Your game isn’t pay to win.
If I can pay you to increase my power. Your game is pay to win.

Now there are different levels of egregiousness and WoW certainly rests on the lesser side of the spectrum but I can just spend cash > get an absurd amount of gold > buy my way into anything sold on the AH. Full stop. If I see a 9mil Mythic BoE I can just swipe and it’s mine.

In more of a gray area, using the gold I acquired for cash and the game’s player provided services I can obtain more abstract things like dungeon or raid clears (many of which include the option to purchase loot or mount drops) and pvp carriers for gold as well.

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OH BOY

another one of these threads!

Next can we pls define casual?

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Could be 9.1.5 close out and rushes for people for carries? or the a new seaon of 9.2 events.

Or people like me free admitting we like 1 if not both raid mounts and carry may well be in our future. But for many if like me this is what casuals do all season long.

We make and save money. I ain’t gonna token the zovaal “spaceship” ride. Gold made in game is how that is getting paid for.

More than 1 million? I don’t need it that bad lol. Hell my cutoff is 500K for now. I could be haggled to 600. But I will push for 500 as the opener lol.

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What happened is that the more people who leave this game and go to find another one, the more they notice similarities between different games and genres.

There have been youtube videos on the nature of pay to win for months.

You guys gotta stop :laughing:
Threads like this aren’t going to do anything but make people start arguing about P2W.

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Personally I’d rather not pay in any kind of way for a carry. Even from my friends I don’t particularly like it, but hey you do you.

You guys I had a canker sore on my tongue last night but it’s not there when I woke up

guys hitting 60 and buying gold to buy carries and getting your ilvl 250+ in one week is not P2W ok

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