Is Tier gonna be available from M+?

Community General Discussion
21

That’s kinda my point.

8 weeks after the patch, myself as a M+ only player will finally get the chance to start maybe getting tier in my vault.

But when I’m applying to groups, I’m gonna be applying next to players that also raid and either have 2 or even 4 piece tier bonuses already active.

I mean, it’s not as bad as Domination Sockets being exclusive to raiding but it’s also far more powerful than they were.

Then the token creation system(as I understand it) will be used by raiders, whom already has access to tier from raid drops , raid vault and Mythic + vault, will be using the tokens to “fill in” and perfect their sets…

While me, being a m+ only players will be hoping for a tier piece from the vault and using the token creation system as my primary way to get tier.

I’m not meaning to complain so hard but as someone that came back to wow exclusively because M+ is a thing, I feel like I’m catching the shaft here.

It’s looking like even after me having to wait the extra 2 months, it will then take me at minimum another 1 month to fill out my tier and that’s assuming I get super lucky each week in the vault(and to get vault rewards I’m gunna be competing against players whom already have their tier).

Yeah, I’m sure it’s gonna be a long patch and all but I feel like once again, non-raiders like myself are an after thought.

Why not offer the chance for tier to drop from m+ maybe 14 and up?

Why not make a separate dungeon gear bonus just for m+?

It’s looking like I’m gonna have to put in twice the effort and three times the time to get half of what a raider gets. And that don’t feel good.

Edit: don’t want you to think I’m fussing at you bc I replied to you. I’m just taking in general haha. I actually value and appreciate your inputs Senz.

22

Huh? You’re getting some wires crossed here.

The three M+ Vault slots can just straight up give you max ilvl Tier gear if you do M15 keys or above. We don’t know the rates they’ll appear but you can get them through the Vault. If you’re insanely lucky you can get your full 4-pc set bonus at the start of the 6th week of the patch through just M+.

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23

That’s not how it works. You’ll be able to get tier sets from your GV slots as soon as the season opens.

The catalyst is intended as either alt catchup and/or bad luck protection.

So what you’re saying is that players who participate in more forms of content gear faster.

Because in this scenario, you’re comparing yourself against someone who does M+ and raid, when you just do M+.

As a Raider, I absolutely wouldn’t expect to gear up as fast as someone who does both M+ and Raids, if I solely raided. Not to mention doing so would lock me out of getting powerful items like Quantum Device, Scale and the new Tazavesh trinkets.

24

Maybe I’m just stupid, but I haven’t really kept up with PTR too much aside from a few things. But I am not understanding and you are generally good at explaining stuff. So, I will probably only do Mythic+ if I come back to the game because I am a full time college student and have a job. If I fill out my M+ vault, do I get a chance at an actual tier token or is it the item to use in the creation catalyst to upgrade it later? Do I just get a piece from Mythic+ that has a tier set bonus on it? Like a BiS helmet from Necrotic Wake with a tier set bonus added on?

25

YEP in the vault (and yes, there you will hav3 3 rings or boots like always)
But just wait 2 MONTHS and you can craft 1 piece

GREAT!

26

You get a chance at an actual piece of tier. There are no more tokens. And that’s from the Vault, not the actual dungeon runs.

Also: I don’t quite understand the creation catalyst, so that I can’t answer. Hehe

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27

Honestly, raiding has probably been the slowest way to gear this expansion. Especially this tier. Raid loggers get nowhere very slowly.

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28

Raid loggers also play the game the least so, y’know, that makes a lot of sense.

29

Interesting, thanks.

And yeah, I’d have to see a video or something of the catalyst I guess, I’m not really sure how it works from reading about it.

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30

Raid logging also hasn’t been a viable strategy since like WoD.

Any raider worth their salt, especially with the introduction of VP, spams the crap out of M+ because it gears you significantly faster than raiding does if you’re not a bleeding edge raiding guild that does half a dozen splits.

Not to mention that raid trinkets this expansion have been pretty underwhelming compared to their M+ counterparts. Maybe it’ll be different in 9.2, but I’ve already told everyone I know that I’m commandeering any DoS keys they get next season until I get IQD and BSS.

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31

Gears you with some transitory garbage.

It’s like saying McDonald’s is superior to your local steakhouse because McDonald’s is closer and cheaper. Like, yeah, you can get eat a bunch of Big Macs, but you really only care about that steak. You can get McDonald’s to mail you a medium-quality steak once a week if you bought 10 Big Macs, whoopie, I’d rather just go buy a primo steak at the steak place.

M+ gear in 9.1 is intermediate gear as you work towards “real gear”. M+ gear should be able to be an end onto itself, not just a stepping stone.

32

Transitory garbage is more important than full BiS for progression.

Give me a full set of 9.2’s gear at a +15 level ilvl (whatever that is) over a full set of sanctum BiS for Sepulcher prog any day of the week.

Not to mention that the M+ GV is significantly better than the raiding GV, unless you’re already farming the raid on Mythic and by then gearing no longer matters anyway.

Hopefully the new 3k IO reward is to unlock those last two upgrade ranks.

But if you dismiss M+ gear as “intermediate” gear, then you’re massively underselling it’s importance.

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33

I mean, the reverse is true for M+ players. I’d trade away Valor upgrades for M+ gear being TRUE BIS (259 gear etc) in a heartbeat. Seasonal titles for M+ are calculated at the end of the season - the only thing most higher-end M+ players care about for the most part is actually being able to get the gear.

(Not that I think M+ should have to give anything up to get true BIS, it already has its problems and could stand to simply be better without cost)

Not in 9.1, because it doesn’t matter if you can get 252 gear in certain slots if that gear is trash because you need to be using dom sockets. A lot of gear on the M+ loot tables are invalidated, whereas a good chunk of the time when you do get Vault loot from Sanctum, it’s actually your BIS.

9.2 is changing that equation somewhat and Vault loot is going to be good again, but Vault is really the only place you can get “actual” loot for M+, so it would make sense it is better - Vault loot for raiding is icing on the cake by comparison.

It’s importance to who? M+ers care about how M+ loot works for M+ players.

As far as raids, I’d be curious to look at what percentage of gear was M+ gear for the last 200 sylvanas kills. There are far more guilds that clear CE that aren’t HOF than are. I think raiders massively overstate the importance of M+ gear outside of the HOF, especially with respect to 9.1 and with this coming 9.2, and most Mythic raid guilds aren’t HOF.

34

That’s a pretty garbage trade, given that “true bis” ilvl is only for a couple slots and VP upgrades are for EVERY slot.

I mean just looking at your armoury, you’re still rocking a 246 BSS because presumably the RNG gods haven’t favoured you and given you a 252 one. You’d stand an equal chance of never getting a 259 weapon (or it’s equivalent) from M+ as you would not getting a Scale or other desirable item in any given season.

Having a stronger baseline is more important than having a higher peak if that higher peak is only for a few slots and still super RNG dependent.

A lot of the raid loot is invalidated by M+ gear existing.

But my actual point on comparing Raiding GV vs M+ GV is that the M+ GV is significantly easier to fill out at the highest ilvl. To get all three slots at it’s highest ilvl, you need to full clear M SoD. If you get benched for more than a boss that week, too bad you’re missing slots. Skip bosses? Too bad, you’re not getting slots. Extend raid? Too bad, you’re not getting a raiding GV slot.

The raiding GV is terribly designed for how raiding actually works. It’s only good on farm, and the whole point of farm is that you don’t need more gear for it.

So long as trinkets like IQD exist, they really don’t lmao. For every spec I play and while I can’t be bothered checking the stats to prove or disprove it but I’m confident enough to say it extends for most specs in the game, an M+ trinket (or trinkets) are so far ahead of raid trinkets that it’s not even close. Like Venthyr Boomkin wouldn’t even be a thing if it weren’t for IQD.

But my original point was.

Neither raid logging nor M+ logging are viable playstyles. If you only do M+ or you only raid, you don’t get to complain when you gear slower, or miss out on important drops that are exclusive to one format or the other.

And even if those important drops aren’t that important for you, you don’t get to complain that you gear slower than someone who utilizes two streams of gearing.

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35

It isn’t a “couple slots”. In this current patch 5 of our slots are eaten up by Dom Sockets that come from the raid. This patch also has imba weapons and some really strong trinkets. Add on top of that your class may have loot from KT and Sylvanas that is BIS as well as locked slots like Leggo and a huge chunk of your paperdoll is eaten up.

The vast, vast majority of this bear’s character power comes from Mythic Raiding gear, even though I’ve only done the first 5 bosses on this character whereas I have an IO of 2.5k which when I last played him ~two months ago was like the top 0.6% (average IO has definitely risen in that time though). That’s dumb. It’s actually really dumb.

I don’t care if I can get 246 Valor gear and dump on M15, that’s like arguing that raiders should be happy if they can gear up and clear Heroic. M15s are not the end game of M+. I want to be able to play an alt and push it into actual end-game keys without it being gimp.

What Mythic raid loot is invalidated by M+ gear? What are you talking about? Some kind of poorly itemized trinket for specific specs? Or you preferring an item with a better stat priority as a given spec? That’s not “invalidated”, that’s just a natural part of an RPG.

Nothing in M+ is “I’m you, but better” tier the way Dom gear, intentionally OP weapons, or higher ilvl gear is.

I actually 100% agree with you here. However, I’m not really sure how the unfortunate state of extend culture in Mythic Raiding which is clearly not how Blizzard envisions the game being played has to do with M+ loot needing to be garbage.

I mean, I agree with this. Of course playing both modes would be faster - there’s no way for it to make sense otherwise unless you completely silo the two game modes.

However, as far as raid-logging vs “M+ logging” being viable, I guess if I look at a top-end cut-off for M+ as being the threshold of viability, then it wouldn’t be fair to not do the same for raids, and you probably can’t raid-log and get HOF. And yet, Blizzard clearly makes an effort to minimize the impact of M+ gearing on WFR/HOF by nerfing the ilvl of M+ gear the first week of the season, so if they’re going to make an effort to make M+ less important for the high-end cut-off for raiding, ideally they should be doing the reverse (and to be fair, this tier change is a step in the right direction).

36

Why just the first 5? Did your Guild stop or were you Pugging?

37

Crash-landing barely made it over the finish line. When there was some ambiguity over whether folks even wanted to do Painsmith, I jumped ship because the entire reason I slogged through that messy Soulrender prog (what a joke btw, that boss was way too easy for it to have taken that long) was because I wanted to prog Painsmith - I raid because I want to see the content.

Anyways, I’m raiding with an enhancement shaman currently. I didn’t really want to jump through hoops to try to get a tank slot when my parses made it easy enough to get a DPS slot in a guild that was where I wanted (progging Painsmith during a timeslot that worked for me).

38

except in PvP where raid gear isn’t bis unless it has a specific stat that’s on all PvP gear and drops from last 3 on mythic…

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39

I was under the impression that after an 8 week raid only grace period that only then tier had a chance to show up in m+ vault?

Is that not right bc I’d love to be wrong?

40

That is not right.

So basically the way it works is that Tier pieces are on the loot table for M+ Great Vault slots. They can’t drop in the dungeons, but they can show up in your Vault the same way a BSS or Phial can.

After 8 weeks, they’ll add a mechanism to convert pieces of gear into tier pieces. So you’ll be able to convert max ilvl M+ pieces of loot into max ilvl tier pieces. Probably 1 a week with a seasonal cap.

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