Is this the worst expac ever in terms of PvP?

Agreed. But I think that TWW balance is in a pretty enjoyable spot outside of a couple minor outliers that could be adjusted slightly.

Ultimately my “ideal” WoW would be a total frankenstein of various versions of it.

  • Class design ethos of WotLK. (Add Monk & Evoker, remove DH & DK :slight_smile: )
  • Disincentivize PvE gear in PvP like modern WoW.
  • Solo queue game modes like TWW.
  • Easier catch-up mechanics of modern WoW, but slightly longer leveling & total removal of character boosting to staunch FotM rerolling.
  • Faction balancing imperative of SoD.
  • No flying. Ground mounts only. Emphasis on world events and immersion to organically facilitate WPvP.

That sounds like a nice game to me. Shame we’ll never get it!

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tbc and bfa

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I will always hold it as fact that the worst arena season was release WoTLK. Burst was absolutely out of control for so many classes, didn’t have a defensive for every divine storm/chaos bolt/lava burst/bladestorm/etc you die.

This isn’t even talking about the heroic class sized elephant in the room. DKs being able to insta-revive their teammates, remove entire full stacks of lifebloom without procing the bloom, having more CDs on their own then damn near all the other classes combined.

They eventually fixed WoTLK pvp to be one of the better expansions for it later on but that first season when the expansion first dropped was some of the most toxic unplayable garbage the game has ever seen. To this day I will never forget having PWS/Renew/PoM all pre-casted getting deathgripped and using Pain Suppression on myself before even landing in front of the DK/Warrior and dying in the duration of a single stun while both of them were immune to CC.

Never want that type of garbage to ever come back into the game again.

For me there are 3 groups.

Group 1: TBC thru WoD

  • PvP improved with each expansion, peaking in MoP, and leveling out or taking a slight step backwards in WoD

Group 2: Legion and BFA

  • The dark ages of PvP. Horrible gearing system that only got worse, and worse, and worse until its pinnacle of hilariousness at the end of BFA (i enjoyed last patch BFA but it was objectively a horrible system)

Group 3: SL, DF, TWW

  • The return to proper gearing. I think SL was a failed attempt, but an honest start. The system was fully fixed in DF and now expanded and improved upon in TWW, leaving us with the best PvP system to date

All in all, every group 1 system is better than anything that we saw during legion / BFA. I used to say, back in BFA, that all blizzard has to do is copy ANY of the older seasons and it would be twice as good as what we had. Anyway, id also say that DF beats all of the previous systems, and TWW clearly beats DF. we have the best PvP system to date, right now. Gearing, accessibility to alts, solo queues. etc.

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The balance in the game is normal.
The lack of worthy rewards for which there is a desire to strive led to a decrease in activity, 2 new modes divided the players, creating the impression of even less activity.
Activity decreases - inflation is introduced, inflation leads to the depreciation of awards, and depreciation leads to the meaninglessness of awards. Vicious circle.

For the start of the addon, this is the worst indicator and it will get worse.

BGB is pretty good. Balancing has been slow for early 1 st season tho. Makes it it a worse season than usual.

Vanilla was garbage.

No. Maybe the most annoying, but I wouldn’t say the worst.
There’s very good things. Like gearing being so easy now and that there is no borrowed power or gear/conquest cap gating. As well the crafted gear for min/maxing stats is so cheap that even I can afford it.

I think the pace of the game is a symptom of mythic design and that that is making the meta worse than it would be otherwise with regards to mobility and the intensity of damage and healing swings.

Most annoying, maybe. But, not particularly any worse than any other specific time in this game.

Legion was goated.

DF was leagues better than what we have now, unfortunately.

Class imbalance is rampant atm.

BfA/SL were the worst PvP expansions by far.

In particular:

Best seasons:

• Legion s1-s7 (7.3.5 was goated patch).
• DF s4.
• WoTLK s2 (s7)
• WoD s3 (s18)
• MoP s4 (s15)

Worst seasons:

• BfA (all especially s4) (Corruption & visions were so terrible).
• SL s3/4 (Having to do all the PvE stuff dailies etc just to PvP was awful).
• MoP s2 (s13).
• Cata s2/3 (s10/11).
• TwW s1 (class imbalance).

There are no words to describe how bad this season is.

Judging an entire expansion versus a partial first season of an expansion is a fraught practice.

Should we judge DF by the retpocalypse? Or WotLK by early DK? Or MoP by first season stampede BM?

Is it? Most stuff is very viable. There’s a few outliers that could be brought up or down slightly, but nothing crazy.

BM hunters & Ferals in particular feels like a heavy uphill battle.

Fair but, it’s not the only issue; there are other issues as well:

• too many overlapping rewards with too many brackets.
• too easy to access said fotm classes.
• bugs, bugs & more bugs.
• inconsistent tuning.

Personal sidenote:
• the glad mount is absolutely awful.

As a mostly solo PVPer, having blitz and solo shuffle to queue up for without having to make any teams makes the PVP gameplay better than anything else out there.

boosting was rampant in slands, sin rogue + revendreth hpal to get people their 1800/2100

As a BG hero for the last 20 years, I do enjoy me some BGB.

That started in MoP.

There was an entire fan made proposal for what warmode could be that would have been amazing. Too bad it never had a chance to get Blizzard’s attention

WoD and MoP both had easy access to fotm rerolling. The problem right now is how overtuned some characters are, at least in the past the fotm rerollers still couldn’t get anywhere because it took more thought than W key (most of the time)

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Bfa corruptions were terrible but also funny af. Y’all remember lightly tapping someone once then just watching them completely melt 100-0 to gushing wounds? Which procced some random Heart of Azeroth dot, which then procced more gushing wounds.

Meh, leveling has been pretty quick since WotLK. I’ve had one of each class for both factions max level each expansion since…Cata? ( Though I’m slacking pretty hard this expac :frowning: )

#idonthaveaproblem