Is there any real argument for not opening up race / class combos?

[Nonesovile-proudmoore]

@Yuineko-stormrage

@anon92755292

my post was flagged, removed, and i was warned by blizzard that i was trolling the community because i stated an opinion

I get that several times a day.

That would be because you are legitimately trolling the community several times a day.

[Naldoshi-wyrmrest-accord]

Because in the past that is one of the things that destroyed EQ when they thought it was going to save it. Where is the sucessful MMO RPG that did that, that clowns Wow in terms of success when they did that in their game? You realize wow current game director (Longdale) oversaw the EQ shutdown, right? Not her fault but im sure she is experienced to know what the result of THAT would be in Warcraft would not be good.

Also nobody needs to present a “good” argument to something they ALREADY said “no” to doing. Not trying to be mean just why beat a dead horse? Peace

[Ivixia-atiesh]

Muh lore!..op.

You the know, same lore that had humans unable to be hunters until a dragon redecorated the world.

It took death wing for humans to evolve. Prior to his ascension…humans were incapable of hunting. they could play with their dog, or pick up a bow/rifle. But never at the same time though.

And we found out why the high elves lost long ago. High now blood elves…could not be warriors till cata either.

ON the cutting room floor of wc3 is a cutscene we never saw. Kel thuzad tells Arthas the plan. arthas goes due…I don’t know, this fight will be tough.

Kel thuzad goes chill my dude. They are racially incapable of being warriors. we can steam roll this and clock out early.

[Yuineko-stormrage]

@Nonesovile-proudmoore

That would be because you are legitimately trolling the community several times a day

Speaking against the hive mind is not the same as trolling. Sorry bud.

[Terraion-wyrmrest-accord]

@Naldoshi-wyrmrest-accord

Because in the past that is one of the things that destroyed EQ when they thought it was going to save it. Where is the sucessful MMO RPG that did that, that clowns Wow in terms of success when they did that in their game? You realize wow current game director (Longdale) oversaw the EQ shutdown, right? Not her fault but im sure she is experienced to know what the result of THAT would be in Warcraft would not be good.

If you think getting ride of race/class restrictions killed EQ idk what to tell you. That’s kinda really weird conclusion to make.

@Naldoshi-wyrmrest-accord

Also nobody needs to present a “good” argument to something they ALREADY said “no” t

Blizzard did not say no.

@Naldoshi-wyrmrest-accord

Not trying to be mean just why beat a dead horse? Peace

There was once a “Wall of no” denying the possibility of classic wow. Guess what happened next? Go on guess.

[Furrfist-frostmourne]

Only argument would be whether they put in the effort to create some story for it. Everything else is resource constraints. E.g. there is perfectly good lore for Earthern to be Druids via Freysworn, but it’s not an option.

[Runeleaf-fizzcrank]

Some of you are just ready to tap dance on everything this game was built on just to get what you want

[Lilus-moon-guard]

@Magnarok-amanthul

Spoken like someone who never actually cared about the lore at all in the first place.

I mean, it IS a Neko topic, so take anything said by them with a grain of salt. Neko rarely posts in good faith and likes to argue, then swaps to another character either because they get bored of it, or folks seem to be wising up to the antics and they just decide to put them on them on ignore.

If they didn’t have an obsessive need to place Neko somewhere in the name of EVERY character they make, we’d likely catch on much slower lol

@Annastasi-proudmoore

I vaguely recall Ion saying all races/all classes was coming.

am I crazy?

Yes.

You’d also be surprised at how often it comes up. Everyone keeps insisting he said it, but NO ONE ever seems to have the evidence of it, be it a Blizzcon panel, or an interview with a WoW streamer, or some random gaming rag that is fading more and more into irrelevance.

Until someone explicitly proves to me that he did indeed say “Yes, all races will eventually have all classes!” then my running theory is that he likely said something along the lines of “We’re going to open up more classes to more races over time.” From there, it’s likely become transformed via a long running game of telephone.

Now, mind you, that’s not to say that I myself DON’T want to see more race/class combos, but I do at least want to see them make some level of sense. I would be beyond hyped to see gnome paladins. While gnomes in lore generally study religion as if it were science, we have had priests since Cataclysm which is nearly 15 years ago in lore at this point. The first paladins were essentially warrior priests, and I feel 15 years is more than enough time for SOMEONE to have come forward and been the first.

I can also see night elves getting the class, especially as Delas Moonfang has been long established as a priestess turned paladin at this point.

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Delas_Moonfang

Past those two races? I say it very much depends on the race and the class.

Now, if Alliance DID get two new paladin races, that’d bring us up to eight. Horde currently have four. I could see the following getting them to balance things out:

• Goblin (for much the same reason as gnomes)
• Troll (likely learned from the Zandalari)
• Highmountain Tauren (see above)
• Mag’har Orc (especially if Yrel makes a return from Alternate Draenor, which I have a feeling is inevitable and a “now or never” moment for that story beat in Midnight)

[Sneakrox-wyrmrest-accord]

there is much headcanon in these types of threads so it feels almost pointless to argue when it’s “i feel”

[Echiyo-wyrmrest-accord]

I would argue Evoker is the only class that wouldn’t work with other races as it literally revolves around being a dragon and having dragonflight-aspected powers. But rather than give Evoker to other races, the more elegant solution would be to open up Evoker visage form to play as any race (and play in visage form in combat).

Everything else I feel can be hand-waved one way or another.

(PS. Give us Dracthyr druids please and thank you)

[Tenebrae-eredar]

@Hollytrinity-skull-rock

No-where does it say gnomes are incappable of faith of joining the church of the light.

Gnomes are not biologically or psychologically incapable of faith.

Yes, but they just don’t do it.
It’s quite clearly stated in the source. They don’t have priests, but medics.
Doesn’t make sense, yeah. It’s still canon. :!
But your argument doesn’t count here, huh?

@Hollytrinity-skull-rock

Funny how you can read about some random orc dealing a devastating blow on a demon lord but not imagine a gnome kicking an orcs butt.

You can’t either.

@Hollytrinity-skull-rock

If I take your left arm, then take your right arm you don’t get your left arm back you are now missing two arms.

False analogy. You restore the previous state.

@Tenebrae-eredar

It is never wrong to correct mistakes you have made. In this case, it is a kind of restoration. Basically, you’re retconning a retcon.

---

@Hollytrinity-skull-rock

I draw the line at biological impossibility.

If that were true, you would agree with me about gnome warriors.

[Awkward-frostmourne (Awkward)]

Heartbreaking: The worst poster on this forum actually made a pretty good thread.

[Awkward-frostmourne (Awkward)]

@Furrfist-frostmourne

Only argument would be whether they put in the effort to create some story for it. Everything else is resource constraints. E.g. there is perfectly good lore for Earthern to be Druids via Freysworn, but it’s not an option.

TBH the fact we’ve got Warlocks for every race despite those races having an extremely poor relationship with Fel/Chaos magic (or no relationship at all, like before we rocked up, who would have shown an Earthen how to summon a demon?) kinda puts to rest any lore-reason for class restrictions.

The only remaining class/race combos we’re missing are those with racial specific artwork/animations.

I’ll die on the hill that it makes more sense for Stormwind Humans to have access to basically every class sans Evoker and Demon Hunter just through sheer cultural osmosis. Like an entire generation of Stormwind Humans grew up alongside Draenei, Night Elves, Gilneans and Kul’Tirans and not even a couple of them picked up Shamanism or Druidism? Ridiculous. Likewise, with all the surviving Priestesses of the Moon relocating to Stormwind after Teldrassil, none of them got inspired by Human Paladins besides Delas? Equally ridiculous.

[Kãla-defias-pillager]

Yeah it looks dumb and degrades the game world even more, which is already quite bad. Making a bad thing worse is not good, you should make it better.

[Murajinoo-bloodsail-buccaneers]

As someone who cares about the lore, I’ve all but given up. I don’t see lore as an obstacle anymore to prevent any race / class combination.

Twenty years ago if you told me we’d have literal red eredar paladins, undead blood elf paladins, lightforged draenei death knights, or tauren / troll paladins, I’d have laughed in your face. Yet here we are.

Blizzard can literally poop out a lore justification for anything. Literally anything. Undead druids? Just say they’re using drust death magic and are plague shifters or something. Void elf paladins already have the door open with the knight of the eclipse NPC, blood elf druid is also quite easy to implement since apparently the distinction between the elves is meaningless, night elf shaman can be primalists, troll paladins can be loa based just like the Zandalari, gnome shaman can follow the same logic as goblins.

The only obstacle that remains really is resources / their willingness. Whether they open up all races to every class or not, I can’t say. I’ll just roll with whatever they do, what other choice do we have?

[Tovi-moon-guard (Tovi)]

@Annastasi-proudmoore

I vaguely recall Ion saying all races/all classes was coming.

am I crazy?

It wasn’t Ion that said that, it was that Brian dude. I think that was his name. He said it when they announced Mages was coming to all races. He no longer works for Blizzard.

It was Ion that walked that statement back. He said there was certain race/class combos he couldn’t imagine and the example he gave was Mechagnome and goblin druids.

@Gravenstone-mannoroth

Yeah

No, he didn’t say it.

@Lilus-moon-guard

Until someone explicitly proves to me that he did indeed say “Yes, all races will eventually have all classes!” then my running theory is that he likely said something along the lines of “We’re going to open up more classes to more races over time.”

Funny thing is, he didn’t say it. Another dev did, and he pretty much said what you think he said. “It’s something we’re working towards.” It was never a promise.

Link to what Brian said exactly:

Mages, Priests and Rogues Available to All Races in Dragonflight

Ion walking it back:

Dracthyr Warriors, Mages & More CONFIRMED for The War Within Expansion

[Furrfist-frostmourne]

I feel like there’s always interesting concepts to explore, I won’t really say no to anything. It’s the RPG part of me that’s happy to explore things. Even LF Draenei Warlocks. I feel like could’ve been an interesting take in using the light to bind beings to your will like what Xe’ra was doing to Illidan. I don’t think it’s mind control though, but I think forcefully infusing ‘light’ into another being and then forcing the demon to worship and admire you could be a pretty wild concept.

Earthern Warlocks wouldn’t be too difficult since I’ve always seen Warlocks as fringe cases/exiles that strayed too far from society rather than an organized groups (could apply to above as well). And then you have the Unbound lore, and Kirin Tor tomes/books laying around the ruins and some demons running around.

[Lilus-moon-guard]

@Tovi-moon-guard

It was Ion that walked that statement back. He said there was certain race/class combos he couldn’t imagine and the example he gave was Mechagnome and goblin druids.

@Tovi-moon-guard

Funny thing is, he didn’t say it. Another dev did, and he pretty much said what you think he said. “It’s something we’re working towards.” It was never a promise.

Well, there you go.

Someone spoke out of turn, Ion walked it back and pretty much said “We’d like to have more combinations where it makes sense.”
Somehow, that turned into “iOn SeD dEy R dOoInG aLl KlAsSeS 4 EvErYbOdY!!!11one”

@Awkward-frostmourne

TBH the fact we’ve got Warlocks for every race despite those races having an extremely poor relationship with Fel/Chaos magic (or no relationship at all, like before we rocked up, who would have shown an Earthen how to summon a demon?) kinda puts to rest any lore-reason for class restrictions.

And many of us do feel that was a bridge too far with several races (ESPECIALLY draenei!)

[Tovi-moon-guard (Tovi)]

@Lilus-moon-guard

Well, there you go.

I found the exact quote above if you wanted to read and/or watch it.

[Lilus-moon-guard]

Ok then. I’d say “never say never” is fairly noncommittal. He’s not shooting some combos down entirely, but Ion is also keeping lore in mind with potential combos.

Unfortunately, I know how so many of the folks around here and in game think, and I can very much see a subset of folks taking such a quote and then just constantly going “Well, he didn’t say no!”