If WoW’s end game consists only of opening chests and tagging rares then I’d consider it P2W.
But as long as difficult content exists in WoW I don’t care how many people buy tokens or get boosted, you went from a newbie with no gear to a newbie with some gear.
No mythic guild would invite you to their roster, people in M+ will abuse and kick you.
Just because you can spend $$ to get some gear doesn’t automatically make you a better player.
But if all you wanted was to afk in content (that you’ve paid for) and collect all the achievements then yep you’re a winner, you’ve been able to achieve everything that others are working towards by doing literally nothing.
If your credit card is that strong then you’re a winner in my books.
Ahh now we are resorting to making assumptions about my real life. Just goes to show that not only are your assumptions wrong but you cant refute actual points.
No, it still matters. Even if you think Normal and Heroic Raiders are total scrubs, the fact remains that they DO think damage and healing matters. So in that case BOEs are still going to be useful in that case if you want to outshine your peers so you get kept around.
On top of that, guilds spend millions of gold on BOEs to give themselves a head start when a new raid comes out. If BOEs didn’t sell, they wouldnt be so wildly expensive in the AH.
But, you still feel like something is being “won” over you, in order to feel like there’s some sort of “P2W” process, involved.
So, what is “winning”, to you?
I’m willing to listen, as long as we’re being honest in what feel is like “winning the game”. Even if I don’t agree with it, I can understand your perspective a bit more.
I’m not including other people in a between you and me discussion (if others feel like chiming in, they can). Between you and me, I didn’t say that, and I’m not sure what the solution would be, to fix whatever “issue” you’re having. And, I’d love to figure it out without going through this roller coaster of dodging direct questions.
That would require taking you seriously … which I never will.
The fact is. People can buy head to toe mythic gear just doing a 15 a week and do so every day.
The entire game is boosting.
The fact you think that there is any integrity to be had is hilarious. This game died long ago.
I can see this happening but if you’re a good player your spot is secured…you won’t need to rely on that one piece of BOE to make the difference.
I have yet to see a raid leader look at the dps meter without considering the ilvl of that character, they would just look at your ilvl parse and see you have potential and gear you up.
Yep, once you get to Mythic raid gear doesn’t matter anymore. People are smart enough to look past the gear and take your current ilvl into consideration.
In a situation when a 300 ilvl person is doing 15k and a 280 doing 13k the raid lead will take the 280 ilvl and gear them up and remove the 300 ilvl person.
Right, I haven’t ran into this issue, either (back when I raided, I don’t, anymore). I’m thinking, my friend (I’m using this metaphorically) just needs to find a better guild.
So people buy them, at substantial prices (they can sell for millions early on), despite their not constituting “an advantage of any kind”? Maybe you should think about the stuff you write before you say it. If they are useful, they are an advantage. Your point is inherently contradictory. You call me a fool, but you openly contradict yourself in an utterly obvious way. How embarrassing this must be for you! I’ll try to make this quick.
I never said BoEs are typically best in slot. Yet they are mythic item level pieces that can be purchased in the first few weeks of a tier, greatly accelerating your “grind” as it typically takes many resets for people to fully decked out in mythic gear. Let me note here as well that you’re saying that they “cut out the last bit of your grind” indicates you may not actually be familiar with this topic. They are primarily valuable for jumpstarting your grind by providing much earlier access to mythic level pieces than purely relying on RNG would allow.
Did you have a point here? Please show me where I said buying boosts for gold or mythic BoEs makes you a good player. I’d love to know where you got the idea I was saying anything like this.
This is one of the most ridiculous paragraphs of text I’ve ever read in my life. First of all, of course anyone can buy them. Again, please show me where I said anything even resembling “BoEs can ONLY be purchased by people with tokens.” Second, OF COURSE spending real money makes it easier and faster to purchase BoEs from the auction house. This point is so mind-numbingly obvious i’m not even going to argue with you. Obviously it’s possible to make gold without buying WoW tokens (please, again, show me where I said “The only way to make gold is buying tokens”). But, just as obviously, however much you make elsewhere, you make more if you buy tokens too. Honestly not sure why I need to explain something so elementary to an adult human being.
How many times do I have to explain this to you? Language is not meant to be understood in a solely literal manner. Pay to win is a metaphor. You have an impoverished view of language and life if you can’t understand the metaphorical use of language. There does not need to be a victory screen. “Winning” in the context of an MMO is progressing, making character stronger, gaining advantages, etc. The game does not end.
That being said, if you really must understand winning literally, just recall that WoW has numerous competitive game modes like ranked PvP, Mythic Hall of Fame/AOTC, mythic plus pushing, and that paying for gold with dollars which can (legally within the game’s rules) be used to purchase mythic gear directly from the AH or indirectly via carries/boosts provides competitive advantages in each of these competitive game modes.
I know quite a few people, myself included, who defined pay to win as simply being able to buy character power for real money. It didn’t matter if any actual “winning” was involved or not. This would mean even the level boost is technically pay to win, albeit a very minor case of it.
Granted in most cases having a more powerful character tends to lead to increased performance and increased chances of clearing content or literally winning in PvP.
The level boost in this case wouldn’t really do that, but being able to buy several slots of ilvl 304 gear from the AH by dropping a few million gold certainly qualifies under that before we even get into the topic of boosting in this game.
I’m also not keen on giving an exception to a game if the buying of power isn’t direct, as that becomes way too easy of an out to make a game that functions every bit as a pay to win game while being able to claim it’s technically not.
So long as we both understand that I’m going to turn around and tell you that they’re still terrible things that shouldn’t be in the game if you try to nitpick my definition to argue that WoW technically isn’t pay to win.
This is not true . No one is fully decked in Mythic gear in the first couple weeks of the season and yet plenty of Mythic BoEs are sold at that time. It is not possible for them all to be downgrades at that point. They are sold to make $$$
