But that’s not how pay to win works. Pay to win REQUIRES me to pay to win. The fact that I do not have to means it is not pay to win and simply paying for convenience
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I guess depending on your definition. That’s not how I see it.
Is it winning when you go to a restaurant and pay to have someone cook your food for you, or is it convenient since you can do it at home without paying anything extra?
Tell me you’re chronically watching twitch/following streamers’ YouTubes without telling me.
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These arguments always crack me the heck up.
If you are paying anything to bypass standardized game mechanics, it’s paying to win. That includes level boosts, XP potions, and tokens to fund carries for gear.
I think you are right. Just found a link to one of the biggest idiots in the game going on and on about the token. This “person” as far as i know, also pays for boosts! LMAO!
Pot meet kettle!
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[Laughs in Thalassian]
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What about the guys who buy boosts without the token?
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I wish people would stop debating on if the game is P2W or what the definition of P2W is. It’s all fluff that dances around the meat of the issue. It doesn’t matter if the token is pay-to-win. It doesn’t matter what anyone’s definition of P2W even is.
Does the token have a measurable negative impact on the experience of others? From all I can see the answer is no. In fact, its actively made the experience better by reducing bots and gold farmers.
There is no real reason to get the token if your goal is to “win.” The feeling would be temporary and largely a waste of money. The “win” wouldn’t last. You don’t really progress the game much faster if you do buy the tokens, and you still have to go get the raid loot yourself. Getting the raid loot, or loot from the other end game options, requires actually knowing how to play the game and spending dozens to hundreds of hours doing so. So why act like the token is the end of the world or is somehow making WoW a bad game?
Let people go out and buy their BoE and their carries, it means nothing.
I’m honestly surprised people are going on about tokens and not the level boost. The level boost is literally spending money to skip the majority of the leveling experience and “beating” it. I have nothing against it, at all, other than it being a waste of money. I am just pointing out that it is very strange people are all of a sudden concerned about tokens specifically. But just like the token, the level boost “win” is temporary and really means nothing in the end game.
I would even argue you do the opposite of “win” in either case, because you paid for the game, paid for a sub, and then paid to not play the game.
At the end of the day, people that do either are likely people who just really enjoy the end game and are tired of everything before the end game. Let them throw their money at blizzard if that’s what they want to do. I would only care if it effected my gameplay personally. It hasn’t, the leveling experience is shorter than ever. Getting gear is easy. Where as most games with these elements make the game worse in an effort to get you to spend money, Blizzard has done the exact opposite. It’s impressive, really, and its one of the things they should be applauded for.
This is going to be a bit of a mean opinion, but it’s honestly what I think. Streamers are people who have often played the game since vanilla. Change is hard, change usually sucks to have to adapt to, and I think these streamers are just wrapped up that its different than what they are used to. This is a natural human instinct. Different can mean bad, but in this case it simply isn’t. They need to not look at the “What, in theory, the token could do” and look at it as “What has the token done,” which is nothing horrible.
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I don’t why you keep making metaphors that aren’t relevant. I can pay money in WoW to gain gear and power. That’s p2w lol, you’re not going to convince me otherwise.
That’s not pay to win. That’s pay to participate and pay to pray you get what you want to drop.
Paying money to gain gear would be paying money directly to blizzard for a specific item. You cannot do that. You cannot guarantee that you get anything. You are paying for a token, which gives you gold.
That is the only guarantee. You cannot purchase power or gear with your CC.
Until someone shows me how they can directly purchase a Blood-Spattered Scale directly from Blizzard with their credit card, it is not a pay to win.
Pay to win is a guaranteed transaction. You get exactly what you paid for.
The only thing you can buy is a token. And you get a token. You cannot buy power or gear upgrades. Thus, not a pay to win model, which is exactly why my metaphors are relevant.
You’re giving me pay for convenience scenarios in which my metaphors reflect.
Show me where i can buy a direct upgrade with my credit card. Then I’ll admit it’s pay to win.
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Buy token for gold, use gold for boost, direct upgrades. Ez
These arguments always just go around in circles and no one ever changes their stances. I think most of the people that argue for these pay to win situations or try to nitpick it to death to justify it have been mentally conditioned to accept the poor behavior.
If you are paying extra money trying to get ahead or fast track anything it’s paying to win.
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How about this for a fact. If your position is that WoW is P2W you need to defend the following statement.
“In WoW you could effectively pay to get the highest M+ key at the end of a season, the highest PVP rating, and world first kill on any raid.”
The concept of winning is tied to a competition or a contest.
Those are the only competition there is in game. Paying money for (*the possibility of) “Gear” is as much P2W as you buying clothes would be P2W in life. And if that sounds weird to you, keep in mind that’s how you sound arguing WoW is a P2W model game.
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I don’t think you understand the definition of direct sir.
Direct is one step. I pay, i receive. Not I have to transfer 3 different types of funds and currencies and rely on someone else and have to participate myself to finally get a chance to maaaaybe get something useful.
Pay to win: I pay for what I want, I receive what I paid for.
Buying a token doesn’t get me my 246 Blood-Spattered Scale
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Off topic, you must really want that blood-spattered scale, you talk about it all the time.
LoL just one of the best tanking trinkets. It’s highly sought after and tanks run DoS 20-30-40 times to get it. Took me 17 runs on my paladin to get it, and I’ve yet to see it on my Druid and my Druid is my main.
Pay to win would allow me to purchase that trinket with money. But there is no way, no amount of gold or anything of the sort, that would get me that trinket outside of playing the game and having a chance to receive it.
No amount of money can guarantee it.
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You’re just creating your own definition for the term to fit your argument lol. I don’t care if you don’t think the game is p2w, it is. Doesn’t matter how many times you refute that fact.
Yeah you aren’t guaranteed a 252 blood splattered scale, but you are guaranteed a 252 piece and that is p2w.
How am I guaranteed a 252 piece of gear? The only guarantee comes from Blizzard. And Blizzard does not participate in those types of transactions.
There is no way for me to swipe my CC and get a 252 piece of gear. Your entire logic you’re basing your argument on is blatantly wrong.
There is absolutely no way for me to swipe my credit card and be guaranteed a piece of gear.
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I don’t how many times myself and other people have to reiterate this. You use money to buy gold and gold to buy a boost which guarantees you gear depending on the boost you buy.
I know your stance here is to nitpick and argue specific definitions but this is just getting weird at this point.