It seems that as long as someone buys a token, then it’s Pay to Win. They probably don’t even realize that the token was put in in order to combat against Chinese gold farmers.
2 Likes
How is that “winning”? What are you winning?
That’s like saying people can buy a race car instead of building one… but you still have to race the car on the track and take 1st.
The people with the skill to win the races are not the ones buying the carries.
So the people that are buying stuff aren’t winning anything. They’re just being carried and their logs and performance will prove that.
2 Likes
How dare you use logic with these players.
1 Like
The fact that none of that is “winning” anything.
What about that do YOU not understand. Do you really think that having 0% parses but acquiring gear that will be obsolete the next patch, all while being a bad player is “winning”?
Man, I’d hate to have that perspective on things.
Do you think paying money for people to hang out with you is how people make friends?
Or bribing people to be your “yes” men is some sense of accomplishment and success?
Because those are pretty much the real world equivalents of what you’re describing - and none of that is “winning”.
1 Like
No matter how much $$$ a person spends on gold, you can’t get outfitted top tier in every slot on the AH.
But you can buy boosts from “guilds”. 
So basically you can get everything what you want by spending real money. (Although not instantly, it may take weeks or months.)
They have an advantage to win in PVP with better gear.
Ultimately your argument is based on what your definition on “winning” the game is. You are correct. There is no “winning” the game in WoW.
In my opinion, I think buying an advantage to win in PvP or getting handed gear in general is winning. Your opinion is that it is not winning.
I’m under the impression that getting gear is “winning” the game for the majority of the players here. The end game content has always been about getting better gear.
So the game black desert online isnt pay to win? You can get everything in game? But most players have to spend 1-2k in order to skip months and months of grind?
or it could take one run. but thats not p2w apparently 
You’ll find a lot of people will only consider a game pay to win if you can buy an advantage with real money that you can’t earn by playing the game.
The token allows you to earn things in game that you otherwise wouldn’t be able to achieve, unless you farmed an insane amount of gold to buy those boosts. For me, it’s a version of pay to win for sure, although what “winning” is means something different for everyone.
Personally, I think anything you can do with your wallet that affects the game in any way shouldn’t exist, but money talks and that’ll never happen.
One definitely got ahead if they obtain that power without effort and way faster.
You can get everything you want by grinding (although not instantly, it may take weeks or months). Maybe your chance of success is even better if you grind as opposed to paying for boosts. So it would be just as accurate to call it “grind to win” as “pay to win.” Silly.
Congratulations, you took the bus, and I walked. But we’re both standing outside the same door waiting to be let in. Now tell me, what exactly did you win?
1 Like
Not exactly the same. It’s more like I got on a plane and you walked. I think if you can pay to advance to a certain level way faster than if you did it normally then that’s p2w.
Like hey, I got my duelist, aotc, and ksm achieve in a week and I barely lifted a finger! While it would take the average player months to achieve all that. How is that not p2w?
I also want to add that I don’t care if you can pay to do all that except for the pvp boosting. I’m not against pve boosting or wow tokens but I recognize that it is p2w.
He took the bus and you walked. He got to his appointment on time and you missed yours and had to wait for a later one. He got the job and you didn’t. So he won.
Yes. Look at all this discussion.
Of course it is. You can pay for gold, buy carries and BoE gear for that gold. It’s pay to win. Even further, buying a PvP boost with gold you purchased directly makes the game less enjoyable for someone else.
wow has one pay to win mechanic right now, the wow token so they definitly don’t hold a firm stance against becoming truly pay to win but as it is now I wouldnt call it pay to win. Using that gold for any of your other examples does not constitute as pay to win as anyone can simply farm up that amount of gold and get carried and all your other examples
The race. Some people play this game to have the best gear, someone buying their way to that devalues your time spent. If it was single player, you’d have an argument, but it matters in a shared world.
Because I don’t have to actually pay to acquire any of that.
Who said I missed anything? That would be equivalent to him buying AoTC and me not being able to get AoTC without buying. That’s not the case. We can both acquire AoTC. One paid for it, one did not.
Again, congratulations, you just paid to get a ride to the appointment, I saved myself $15. We both made the appointment, we both got the job, someone just paid for the convenience of getting to the appointment faster.
Technically, we both got the exact same things, and I saved myself money. Wouldn’t I be the winner in this situation?
The race is won before any of us even get to compete. The ones doing the boosting, which is required for you to pay to win in these scenarios, already won the race. So all you’re doing is paying for your participation ribbon. That’s not winning.
3 Likes
But you can. Like it doesn’t matter if you don’t want to do it but the fact that someone else can makes it p2w.
Just because you don’t personally do it doesn’t negate it’s existence.