I wasnt moving any goalposts. Using an in game currency you bought with real life money to pay for gear, items, or carries.
Is this stupid thread still going? SMH.
I wonder how many people realise you’re raging about the definition of P2W rather than anything to do with wow.
I get it just fine. You don’t like being wrong. Not too many people do, and I’m sorry. Doesn’t change the facts. 
Can do this, and have done this before, without buying gold.
Pay to win means I bought something specifically with my credit card. The only thing you can buy is a token. Buying a token is not paying to win anything.
Paying to win would be buying gear with my credit card. I pay for a Blood-Spattered Scale, said piece of gear goes into my bags (or mailbox).
Until I can specifically buy an exact piece of gear with my credit card, it is not a p2w model.
Buying gold, which is perfectly acceptable is not p2w. Giving gold to another player to carry me is not p2w. I didn’t win anything. Nor is it guaranteed that I’m getting gear. And if I am getting gear, there’s no promises I’ll get exactly what I’m wanting.
How is that a pay to win model? I paid and got something I already have. What did I win? Nothing.
Pay to win = you receive exactly what you paid for. I cannot pay blizzard for a completed 15 dungeon run. I cannot pay blizzard directly to get an exact trinket I want.
Pay to win does not have RNG or “chance” attached to it. Giving your gold to another player is left up to chance, 100%, that you’ll get the services you were promised and not get scammed
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i dont think you’re acknowledging the facts here…
for people that want to p2w it does
You literally just did.
You said this
I then proved you wrong by saying
You then changed your definition from it being faster to use a cc than farming until I proved you wrong
False. The definition of pay to win doesn’t change.
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lmao. buy tokens = get gold = get carried = p2w
Umm that’s a lot more steps
Pay to win: pay = get.
What you just described is not pay to win
What’s happens when you, buy token = get gold = buy carry = get scammed and win nothing
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The debate on WoW being P2W depends on what one’s definition of P2W is. WoW is not P2W for me as I can spend the money, by the carry only to have it fall short of the goal (last boss) or get no gear I need.
Until WoW is like “pay us $100 and get your full set of mythic gear” I will never consider it P2W as there will always be that human component or just simple RNG that makes the carry a gamble.
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Wrong and wrong.
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Anything that has even a chance at failing can’t be pay2win. If I go to a game’s store and buy exactly the powerful items I want for money, then yes, that’s pay2win. Purchasing currency I can get just by playing the game anyway, that I then pay to another player for a chance at something I might not even want or need doesn’t align with that. If you’re still saying that’s P2W then your definition is different from what seemingly lots of other people’s is.
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both sides will fight this eternal war lol.
Some watch it for giggle like I do. some even ponder so how soon can we get that zovaal mount carry party going. with money made in game. which is what many of us save up for. no token so we seem to be okay here I reckon.
got a whole expac to make 500+K, right?
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Not worth it. I gave it a week and as a warlock my class is so borked and poorly designed now. 20 minute boss fights are pure hell no wonder folks pay to get carried. I hope they change designers in this game.
This is the fundamental disconnect between each side. One sees the tokens as just a second step, the other that there has to be direct relation from the game producer (im in this one).
Nobody is going to get the one up here cause neither side will back down, so just agree to disagree. Some of us need a direct connection to the company and some of us need just some kind of gain for the player, what we can agree on is we want a fun game that isn’t filled with gold scammers and boosters in our faces 24/7.
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People do know what Pay to win is, however, as the creator of the topic, you most certainly don’t, just saying. A true Pay to Win game allows you to buy the best gear, quests ect via actual money transactions in order to get ahead in the game. The World of Warcraft doesn’t do this simply because if you farm gold to but a boosts, your going to get very mediocre gear, or if that gold is used to purchase a few dozen mythic + runs, you’re still playing the game while using the game’s currency how it’s meant to be used. A true Pay to Win game would be going to a cash shop, and purchasing the same mythic, rated PvP gear that those who earned through progressing in the game have.
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Uhm, no., your analogy is flawed. In order for this game to be Pay to Win, then you would have to be able to buy the exact same gear from the cash shop that others earn through progression within the game. Farming gold, and then using it to buy a carry is not a 100% guarantee to get that mythic raid gear, or the rated PvP gear.
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Or, buy token, get carried, and the gear that you need doesn’t drop because it’s still random? Pay to Win would be a GARANTEE to get the same exact gear that those who progress through rated PvP, & mythic raids get.
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Aye, I’ve made the same argument and it doesn’t seem to connect with them.
You pay for X item, you receive X item. That’s pay to win.
There is no such model like that in WoW. Perhaps they will be in the future when they’re stretched thin and they’re looking for their last bit of a cash crop before being snuffed out, they’ll offer something similar.
Until then, no p2w
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