Is there any debate that WoW is P2W?

that’s not the only qualification for the definition of “pay2win”.

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Actually to be a pay to win game it does.

The fact that you can get any boost in the game without purchasing a single WoW token invalidates that.

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You can say “yea no” all you want. Fact of the matter is if things are harder/take more time then people will skirt around them.

I agree that drastic change is the only true measure to end something like this, however even drastic change just means people go to other methods. Its a lot like Crime. Will it ever go away? No it wont. Can you reduce the factors that lead to it? Yes you can.

No matter what happens, change has to be made in tandem with reducing what leads to people wanting boosts or buying gold in the first place, otherwise you are just putting a fresh coat of paint on a decaying house.

No it doesnt. Your definiton of pay2win is different than other peoples. Thats why people are have been having arguments over this for years.

You can buy gold for real life money. You can spend that gold on gear and acheivements.

Thats pay2win.

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Difference is: in game services for in game currency was perfectly legal and no issues there. Just like it is now.

Acquiring gold is not P2W.

Negative. Both people end up with the same exact thing. Same exact power, gear, and ilvl. At the end of the day, they’re the same. One paid and one didn’t. No one got ahead.

You’re forgetting one key fact. Pay to win models hold something you cannot obtain by normal game play behind a pay wall. There is nothing in the game that you can obtain with $$ that I cannot get without just playing the game.

Buying a token gives you gold. Gold does not directly equate to buying a carry.

Buying a token is not a pay to win model

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i dont think you understand what pay2win means.

If you pay cash for something, and I get the exact same thing 15 minutes later without paying, what did you win?

Your feelings don’t change facts. The definition I’m using is the actual definition of a pay to win game.

If Blizz offered a sword in the store that gave an insane proc or stats and it was only obtained via money from the store then yes that would be pay to win.

Buying a token and selling it for in game currency isn’t.

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Someone who clearly doesn’t understand pay to win. And any convenience means it’s pay to win.

Guildy gave you a stack of flasks for a raid. That’s pay to win.

You bought a token and sold it for gold and bought 3 sets of transmogs. Even though you didn’t do any content and won nothing, that’s pay to win.

Logikz :+1:

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getting something with a credit card faster than someone who farmed the gold in game.

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You clearly dont know what you’re talking about.

But you didn’t win anything, and you didn’t gain anything.

Congratulations. You stopped at the conscience store and paid extra for the convenience.

You just explained paying for convenience and paying for skips. None of that is p2w

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If anything that would be paying for convenience.

I farmed ies for an hour last weekend and made 400k gold.

I did that faster than the time it took to buy two WoW tokens.

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you are buy gold with real money instead of farming that gold,

then you take that gold that you bought with a credit card and spend on carries, gear, items, achievements.,

How do you not understand this concept?

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Congrats you can farm efficiently. Thats a good skill. The whole point is spending real currency on in game currency that you can use to buy in game services and items.

Because it’s not paying to win.

If anything it’s paying for convenience. Even then that’s. Stretch.

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If there’s anybody in here (recently) that’s not getting it, it’s you. That token and the gold that comes from it guarantees you nothing other than its face value. You can pay Booster McFly all your gold you just bought and he can log off and you never got squat, or absolutely no loot that you can use drops, or your team loses in PvP, etc. You are trading gold, that can be obtained many different ways simply by playing the game, for the chance to get some stuff…from other players. Not the game itself. There’s nothing pay2win about any of that.

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Yes it is…

You dont get it because you dont understand what you’re talking about.

Now you’re moving the goalposts.

The sooner you realize it’s not pay to win the better off you will be.

Like it or not the tokens not going anywhere because it brings more good than bad. The only people complaining about the token are the ones that can’t understand that.