That would reduce the cost of materials if they lowered demand and make professions worse
Its not.
I think you might not know what an actual pay to win game is.
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Not even close. Hate to break it to you but you are 100% wrong and WoW is not pay to win.
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Lol no, that’s the definition of the jealous noobs that dont have the skills to do the content themselves and can’t afford to pay for boosts themselves.
You can pay all the money in the world and get 300 ilvl but you’re still going to be rejected by Mythic raiding guilds if you’re trash.
So what are you really winning? The admiration of other noobs or become a joke to the players that actually play the gameand acquire the gear themselves?
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No it’s not. You’re assuming that “getting gear” = the “win” part of P2W.
The concept of winning require that their be some kind of competition or contest to be won.
There is no “Getting gear leader board”. The people “paying to win” will never win any in game competition. They will never finish top PVP player or invited to PVP competition, they will never get mythic world first and they will never push the highest keys.
If this game was P2W you would be able to top any of those by throwing money at the game. The fact that you can’t tells the whole story.
By your logic I can win a race by simply buying a car, it’s ludicrous.
Your P2W definition encompass every transaction that exist because you remove the competition requirement from the concept of “winning”.
The real question is, does the gear the person gets make them “win” any in-game competition?
The answer is overwhelmingly no.
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Shill the shill shill shill
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Hate to break it to you but i disagree with you 100%.
You can disagree all you want too but you are still wrong.
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I buy a token and then use the gold to make about a month’s worth of consumables for my guild. We still have to enter the raid and kill the bosses.
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True. I still disagree and you are still wrong.
He’s objectively right though.
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That can vary by game. In eve it is common to see bought chars. and its more accepted. Gets you advanced pilots faster. Eve training can be slow.
Many corps will not really care if you are a bought char. they just want to know you are so we know we need to train you up a bit possibly.
But that’s how gmes like eve can go. Being honest I liked the bought chars more then bitter vets sometimes. Bought chars noobs listened and followed directions better. they wanted to learn and were flexible.
Dealt with some bitter vets as lower corp leadership and hated it.
We do it this way new guy. this is the way!
Well…my old alliance did it this way.
New guy…we stomped the crap out of your old alliance 3 months ago. what is that telling you about their ways? lol.
No. I’m not blaming people who do carries, I used to do carries all the time at the peak of my raiding days in Retail. If I was still doing that level of raiding I’m sure I’d still be doing them, I’m not blaming people who perform carries, nor have I ever advocated for banning them outright.
I feel like you’re trying to defend carries which isn’t really what the topic of P2W is. I don’t think most people are trying to demonize carrying, albeit some do, but without a P2W component to it carrying services are just part of an economic structure a game like an MMO can support. It’s possible to say carrying is fine as a concept, but dislike the WoW token because of what it does to the game. Carries are just one aspect of what allows the token to act as a P2W mechanic.
I’m not asking you to tell me whether it’s legally ok to participate in the activities (because it is). I’m asking you if you think it’s good game design that the system they’ve implemented effectively allows for people to translate real world wealth into game progression. If you think that’s good game design then that’s your opinion, but if you think everything is fine because Blizzard says it’s ok then that’s not really answering the question.
Alright then lets put it this way.
Gear = content
Finishing first in some form of competition = Winning
Winning in Wow come from very specific things:
- PVP competition/esport
- Mythic + invitational
- Mythic world first kill
Can guarantee that no player who “paid to win” ended up in the top 50 of any of those competitions.
They bought a race car they can’t drive…
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I don’t think it’s good or bad game design. I had a longer post up above where I went over what I saw as the positives and negatives of the WoW token. I honestly don’t have any strong opinions either way because someone else buying a boost to progress their character doesn’t affect my game experience in the slightest. It doesn’t stop me from raiding and it doesn’t diminish the quality of the rewards I get when I win.
I don’t think that it’s good game design just because Blizzard says it’s okay or anything like that. The only part I referenced Blizzard’s stamp of approval was with regards to who is considered to beat a boss fight or not. Those are the rules of the game and carries don’t break them.
Like you said, carries are a natural part of any MMO economy. They’re going to happen whether Blizzard actively encourages them or not. I just don’t see a fundamental difference between paying for that carry with time grinding gold or with money exchanged for gold. That’s ostensibly the main purpose of the WoW token - it allows you to pay for your sub with either time or money. No one disagrees with that function of the WoW token. In fact most people think that’s a good thing. I agree. I see some of the arguments people put forth about P2W but I honestly think that the positives outweigh the negatives. Largely because I don’t see how P2W players affect anyone’s experience but their own. What does it matter if someone else buys a CE achievement and Mythic raid gear? Are there a limited quantity of those to go around? When I kill a boss will I get nothing because he ran out of loot giving it all to carries?
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im the one being objective. You are being subjective.
I’m not though.
One simple statement blows your arguments validity out of the water.
What about people who farm gold and buy boosts without touching a token?
You are forgetting one key fact: Wow token is sold for real life money.
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I heard about the rampant mount duping in WoD. But even at that price idk if those low rez mounts would have been worth it.
I’m not forgetting that fact.
What you’re forgetting is that a requirement to qualify for pay to win means that real money is the only way to purchase it and it’s only accessible in a pay store.
Since it’s not locked behind real money transfers by definition it’s not pay to win.
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