people used to get banned for buying gold. now its literally legal
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lmao… re-read your reply please
Try playing for one hour a day.
I guarantee successful professionals can make more money in that time spent farming gold, on all levels.
Value Based pricing,
And we used to play computer games on a commodore 64… do you realize how stupid it is to try to use the past as a justification?
Some people. Good grief. Lemme spell it out one more time.
Buys the gold via token.
Buys BoEs and carrys with the bought gold.
Gets sweet gear.
This is pay to win lol
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no it is not move along
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you just did that tho
difference is buying gold was bannable and the third party sites often ended up just stealing account info back them. now buying gold is legal and MUCH more accessible
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Killing the last boss or getting the best gear, means we beat the game right?
We won!
wow is more p2win than most other MMO’s simply because of the token. This doesnt mean it cant exist without it. They are not mutually exclusive.
Uh, most other MMO’s offer you super powerful items you buy directly from them that you can’t otherwise obtain. I think that’s more P2W sounding than the token.
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Well the reason I distinguish it is because there’s no fundamental difference between that and just being a bad raider. My guild has some raiders in it that are not great. If we kill Sylvanas and they spend most of the fight dead (which odds are good they will) is that a problem? Surely it shouldn’t be because they’re our guild mates and that’s the kind of guild we are. No one would find anything wrong with that kind of behavior.
If we then say that instead of a guild mate, we say that my guild will take a player who paid us in game gold is there anything wrong with that? Again of course there should not be. My guild is allowed to take whomever we want to raid for whatever reason we want regardless of how effective that player will ultimately be. They’re still running the content with us and they are still entitled to any rewards because of that. Blizzard should not have the power to dictate who we are and are not allowed to party with. If the group can successfully beat the content, then all members of the group deserve the rewards regardless of how much each individual member contributed.
The part where people are having the issue is where players can pay Blizzard for gold. My opinion is that if a behavior isn’t bad before the token (two players entering into a consensual deal to exchange in-game gold for raid party membership) then it’s still not bad after the token since Blizzard is not the one providing the service and all players involved are still completing the content per the rules that Blizzard sets. (Those rules being that every player is in the raid group, instanced into the fight, and that the boss’ hp reaches zero.)
Yep. I token’d when I started wow late legion.
Making 15 silver…wasn’t cutting it. Missing gear/enchants noob? hit the AH. Okay…500 gold. No enchant today for me.
Token was 220K at the time. 1 for the alliance! 1…for the Horde! lol
Mounts speed upgrade, mounts like travellers mount to have vendor/repairs on the road. Looms. this is what it bought. to stretch out the money I’d do one side buys this, other side buys that. BOA setup made that work out well.
edit: the year is now 2022. I ahve made a fresh server char. at level 60 she had like 8k gold. it have been 3500…if I paid for master flight. I didn’t get that upgrade till much later after callings run.
So the game has not, imo, really given adequate pay raises over the years for fresh, poor, leveling chars. 200 crafted at 60? Lol…I could maybe buy 2 or 3 at illidan’s price at the time.
I don’t think WoW is P2W but I can fully get on the train that if professions were better/easier to make some things that the driving forces that lead to boosting/P2W systems would go down.
Simple things like reducing mat costs from 5 to 3 herbs, 40 to 20 fish, 1000 leather to 500 leather, etc can really help guilds out. Along with that, it helps a casual player looking in not feel like it’s hours of investment for little gain for your time.
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If WoW is pay to win, everything is pay to win.
Pay other players to “win” is not a “P2W” game. To be called that it has to be something the game itself comes with.
A level boost, in Wow from Blizzard, is just a shortcut. You still don’t really “win” with it. Buying gold doesn’t make you “win”, since you can’t really buy any win potential with just gold (except for “boosting” from other players.)
Great gear is just not sitting on the AH, to reasonably buy with gold.
Which is pure crud, since it can’t be put on the AH if it is good gear at all (except maybe low level blues which no one really needs.)
There again, that is a player-to-player thing rather than the game innately being “Pay to Win.”
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Yeah no. There was boosting and people buying gold from good old Susan back when we had more impactful professions as well.
The only thing that affects boosting is the number of people with more money than time and that’s not going to change. Even if boosting was completely against ToS people would still buy boosts from shady websites outside of the game just like they used to buy gold before Blizz added the token.
You don’t need any of those things to get the high end achievements and cosmetics for each season which is really what people want.
Why spend weeks/months grinding for something that could take you a couple days to obtain with boosts?
There’s really I argument here though. If you start two people at fresh 60 and both of them want to get a high ilvl the one who buy boosts will get it almost instantly while the other person will spend weeks/months to do it. That’s p2w.
But in a game like WoW someone could pay blizzard $100000 but still be absolute trash so if someone wants to spend a ton of money to be the king of the noobs go ahead power to them.
I don’t care if you’re 300 or 400 ilvl, if you’re trash no amount of “p2w” in WoW will make you a better player.
If someone has full mythic gear parsing at 0% they’re still trash.
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Retail wow has been pay2win since the wow token was added in 2015. End game activities like raiding had BOEs. Since boes are listed on the AH or tradeable between players, and players can buy gold for real money. That falls under the commonly understood definition of pay2win.
WoW has a “pay to gear faster” system, not necessarily a “pay to win” system.
Pay to win was started with games where you HAD to pay real money to get access to the highest power level rewards. THAT is true pay to win. 100% pay wall behind rewards.
Some EA sports games had this where you had to buy “card packs” to get the best players. I think one iteration of a star wars game also had this.
In WoW you can get all the highest level power rewards without paying anything more than your subscription cost. You’re also not “winning” anything in WoW aside from the top 3 raid teams in the world first race, which is over after the 1st week the raid bosses are released. The best WoW has for “winning” is M+ and arena - but last I recall those are played on tournament realms and anything you could “buy” in the game doesn’t transfer there.
So to answer your question- the confusion lies with people remembering what TRUE PAY TO WIN is vs. Pay to get gear faster (and not actually win anything).
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