Why should i answer someone who jumps around in different goalposts and accuses others of moving goalposts ive already pointed out your problem and flaw with your argument
ok
I added the emphasis myself because I think that’s an important part of the definition to me.
Insurmountable means that no matter what I do, no matter how skilled I am, I cannot match the advantage that the other player paid for. The quintessential example of this is that if I can pay money for a sword that does 10 damage and the best sword you can get by any method without paying money only does 5 damage, that advantage is insurmountable. That’s not what’s happening with carries. People can and do finish Mythic raids without buying WoW tokens all the time. In fact, carries would literally not be possible without them. There is a way to surmount the advantage gained by buying a carry and that way is to be skilled enough that you can simply beat the content on your own. Or if that’s not good enough for you, I’ll offer a second method to surmount the advantage. Acquire the gold without a token by farming mats or playing the Auction House. Either way, you get the same advantage as the token buyer without spending any money.
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i feel so bad that grizzle has now said i lost the credibility i have
what shall i do? oh no
Saying I moved a goalpost without referencing which one I moved doesn’t make it true. I can’t find it myself, obviously, because I have no idea what you’re talking about.
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That is pretty much what the discussion in this thread has come to lol. Blizzard white knights and their delusion
Ahh there it is, your definition of “winning”. It clears everything up.
See most would say you paid to achieve something. Kinda like I paid someone to make my shed in the backyard.
I’d hardly say I won anything by doing that, just as I wouldn’t say you won anything in WoW by paying someone else to achieved it for you. It isn’t so much a matter of winning as it is something that had to be done for some reason.
At the end of the day, you won’t be at the Esport PVP competition or that the Mythic+ invitational let alone win any of those.
And to be fair maybe you don’t care about those but what you described has nothing to do with the concept of “winning” or “losing”. Those usually require some kind of competition, you’re only filling a bucket-list.
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I’m not defending Blizzard, I’m arguing the definition of pay2win.
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you jump from “but you can make gold in game” to “oh just because tokens give gold to buy carries does not mean it is pay to win” and a few more
no way im playing your sneaky game
I agree, WoW is a little p2w, but not as bad as Lost Ark. In Lost Ark, you pay real money to the game itself and it unlocks all dungeon sets automatically within one day while it takes 7 months for f2p players.
The difference is that WoW’s p2w is determined by the hardcore pro players available to carry you/craft your gear (which takes time after content is released) AND they make in-game gold from you as well. So other players who aren’t paying real money for gold are benefiting from people who are. While Lost Ark on the other hand, takes all the real money and no f2p player is benefiting from you paying.
no in a season there is nothing which says winning than the current mounts, gear, achievements
I did not even quote your post about esport competition because there has never been a boosting service for official competitions
its invalid to even compare boosting for gold in wow to competitions where boosting does not exist
… that makes no sense. That’s not opposing opinions.
My point has always been, because I keep repeating it since nobody wants to address it, is this:
If Blizzard is pay2win, why do I have to rely on a third party and luck to “win” the game? Why can’t I just buy it from Blizzard?
You on the other hand went from “tokens is p2w” to “tokens indirectly allow you to p2w” which is definitely moving the goal post.
buy gold with $$$ to spend on
1 - AH for gear isn’t P2W?
2 - PvP ranking isn’t P2W?
3 - m+/raid clears isn’t P2W?
4 - buying gold and saving the time from grinding it isn’t P2W?
Do I get that from Blizzard or players?
That’s not moving goal posts.
So one you pay the game directly for it’s rewards, and the other you…don’t pay the game anything and pray the players don’t swindle you, while on the prior game, it’s guaranteed?
Hmm…interesting.
But the game continues on after those achievements and mounts. So that’s not really winning if the game doesn’t come to an end right there.
Your comprehension is lacking. He didn’t make a comparison at all, you did on your own.
they are opinions you use to “jump goalposts”
if someone asks you about wow being pay to win with gold, you talk about earning gold in game
if they point out you can get tokens, you jump to i can use gold with whatever i want
if they point out you can use the gold from tokens to boost, you say but that’s not pay to win
you have too many goalposts
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That’s not what happened, that’s what you think happened. The person I was talking to said they wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for tokens. It was that admitted booster. So I asked about buying his services with gold.
Yes…
Actually, what I said is that makes the boosters pay2win, not Blizzard, because I’m paying the booster.
You keep using that phrase. I don’t think it means what you think it means.
Wrong. He said buying gold does nothing when you can make gold in game and buy the same things.
Tokens give you gold. You can do whatever you want with gold. Gold is not meant for carries alone
It’s not though.
Nope, it all falls under the same umbrella of “it’s not pay to win”
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P2W is really a bad definition for WoW. Sure you can buy your way to a level you couldn’t normally reach but it’s not “winning”. After all you are purchasing a free ride on content that is 100% trivial and farmed out to the group carrying you.
It is like coming in last place in the Boston marathon. Sure you finished but you didn’t actually “win”.
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a booster himself confirms these points but you don’t believe? Why
but you admit blizzard gives you a easy way to get gold and pay boosters
no
you gain no extra player power.
all these things can be done without carries. nothing is behind a paywall. no gear is unobtainable in-game and only available in the shop.
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