You sure lol
you picked a bad example in pvp if you suck you’re not getting anything unless you pay
but you agree that having tokens is a easy way to get gold which is used to pay boosters indirectly contributing to pay and skip or win
that’s because you people are panicking through so many hoops of “but but blizzard sells tokens not the gear wink”
Btw, why are people calling Lost Ark pay2win?
ROFL
You mean other then the AH and getting gear from Boosts? I never even talked about buying gold to buy gear on the AH so thanks for bring that up
Proving my point I see lol
How am I proving your point? Is laughing “panicking”?
It’s not though, in true p2w joe would be a beast. Even with free gear maxed from carry’s joe still sucks
That wasn’t me, it was who I was replying to.
fair but most of these carried people just get carried through easy gold and never step into the arena so they dont care whether they’re good, they skipped to the end and got the rewards
it is when you highlight “indirect pay to win” which is exactly what’s allowing you to pretend “oh but it’s not directly pay to win so it’s not pay to win” lol
I was laughing at you suddenly changing your tune.
and i caught your panicked laughter because you highlighted the exact thing which you are doing:
you think i didn’t notice you changing goalposts KEK
I don’t like the token very much…and I do think that there’s some systems (like the legendary system) that encourage buying one…
but you just pay, nobody wins. We all get kinda screwed on these types of things, cuz everyone has to buy them again after the patch 
WoW is def not pay to win…one of the reasons I love the Subscription model (which is the best one for mmo’s imo) 
You understand why he highlighted that right.
Pay 2 win is a direct transaction. Adding in “indirect” just threw your entire argument away lol
Obviously a player doesn’t have to spend money to get gold, why would you even bring that up? Do people fundamentally not understand what Pay2Win is? Like what kind of argument is this?
A - Grind in WoW to get gold. You can skip that entirely by spending real $$$. In other words you are using real $$$ to get an advantage (time advantage) over the person that grinded the gold. Pay2Win
B - Person with gold is now able to buy gear directly on AH. You can get this currency by spending real $$$ thus giving you two advantages, 1 - unlimited gold to spend on gear, 2 - time advantage. Pay2Win
C - Person is able to skip all hassles and pays someone gold to clear an entire raid/m+ dungeon. You can get this currency by spending real $$$ thus giving you two advantages, 1 - unlimited gold to spend on dungeons/m+ (with alts), 2 - time advantage. Pay2Win
D - Person wants to PvP, you can grinded out the ladder to get access to the gear or you can pay someone gold to do that for you. You can buy that gold with $$$. Pay2Win
I honestly don’t understand how anyone can argue against this
lol “guys it’s not pay to win because it’s indirect”
good one
Then what are they winning? P2w has a competitive element. If they’re not competing they’re not winning. And even with all the gear joe still has no idea, he still sucks and isn’t winning.
Go play an eastern cash grab mmo and get back to me.
My first mmo was a Chinese game where you could use these refining stones from cash shop that added stats to gear to the point you’d have so much dodge normal players couldn’t actually hit you and even if the rng gods let an attack through it wouldn’t matter because it would do no damage and you’d be 1 hit.
That’s p2w
Grizzle is a Troll.
Raids: CE, AOTC, Mount, Gear Funnels
Mythic+: Mount, Portals
PvP: Gladiator, Elite Transmog, Mount
anything else you want to know?
an evolved one…he’s actually a night elf under that mask