so you realized that your attempt to mix and match blizzard like the good ol’ “wow is not pay to win” posters did not work
i must admit that blizzard with tokens are extremely clever giving you ammunition to defend the grey area by indirectly giving gold to players
what if you’re the one having a stroke panicking that your last line of defense is “but blizzard doesn’t sell gear directly you need to buy a token and get gold” lmao
You have to make incredible leaps in logic to think that makes Blizzard responsible for the carry.
Carries existed long before the WoW token did. One day I’ll show you an app called Venmo where you can exchange money with people in return for whatever you want. It’ll blow your mind.
Anyway at some point I have to acknowledge when I’m feeding the troll and putting them on my ignore list. That point is now. I’m embarrassed at myself for having engaged you for so long without realizing you weren’t actually having a good faith discussion.
I mean if we’re comparing it to Lost Ark like OP is then yeah it’s still pay to win. Just because you can achieve the same power in game as someone who uses real money to boost doesn’t mean that it isn’t pay to win.
Obviously not lol. They didn’t pay anything.
We’re arguing the definition of the word “win” now? Lmao come on now.
you have to make incredible leaps in logic to think that blizzard selling gold which is the most easiest way to get a carry makes blizzard not responsible
I mean, since the whole thread is about debating the definition of “Pay to win” there’s really only three options for what words we debate the definition of and the middle one is a preposition. 
Blizzard doesnt support boosting? From recent changes it appears they do.
WoW isnt pay to win but the token indirectly makes it possible to do so and its easy to see why some people perceive it as Pay to Win even though it isnt directly and requires players to do so. That much can be seen from this single thread alone.
They havent banned the practice at least not yet. Id be in favor of what FF14 has done.
World of Warcraft is not pay to win.
Everyone here saying, “yOu CaN bUy GoLd, it’s P2W!!!1” don’t really know what pay to win is. Yes you can buy gold, but even before the WoW Token you could still buy gold, just not through Blizzard.
Gold is easily accumulated if you know how to make gold. A bit of farming and Auction House play and you’ll be set. Yes, you can buy boosts (sort of, Blizzard cut down on it by not allowing cross realm boost/community boosts, but same server is fine) but nothing is guaranteed still, and you’re using gold to pay for it (which again can be made in game)
It’d be P2W if you could buy guaranteed gear through the WoW shop in game.
Winner this guy gets what is the real deal
Actually, that’s exactly how I personally see it. Pay to win is when you buy player power that you CAN’T get any other way.
It’s a valid point, unlike finding a booster that does it for free? How does that relate to the conversation in any way?
Btw, you never answered me on why I have to go through a third party not associated with Blizzard to “win” if WoW is pay2win.
It’s not indirectly giving gold to players. Tokens are blizzards way of directly giving players gold if they so choose it.
Giving players gold is not giving them an effortless win. It’s giving them currency. I could get 200k for a token, and spend all 200k on leveling up professions.
I bought a WoW token, and I did not receive everything in the season the easiest way possible. So buying a WoW token does not make you win the game.
Yes, it’s part of “P2W”…pay to win. It matters a lot. If I give someone 50k to boost my Arena ranking and they can’t 2v1 and we lose 30 games in a row, did I just win because I paid someone else to do something for me?
If I gave you a knife to cut your steak with, and you tripped over your own two feet and fell on it on your way to the sink, I am not responsible for the accident. Just like Blizzard isn’t responsible for anything a player does once they receive said gold.
I could buy a token and give it away to some random person and blame blizzard and tell them it’s their fault that I lost all my gold and they owe me another 200k. And I could do this until I’ve given everyone on my server 10 million gold.
Blizzards responsible for losing billions of gold then right?
We have had wow tokens since 2014 but people don’t actually know what is is or what they do. If someone makes the argument that you cannot use real life money to get an advantage in the game then they must not actually know what a Wow token is.
Real Money = Wow Token = Gold
If Gold cannot be used for anything. Then paying money has absolutely no effect on your gameplay. If Gold can be used for Anything then paying money has a direct impact on your game.
Some of you never played an Asian p2w game and it shows
why would a person want to put in effort if they see easy gold with tokens which can get them everything in a few days instead of a lot of months
You have to sub and buy xpacs.
It can’t be used for anything. Where can I purchase a 252 Blood-Spattered Scale in game for gold?
It’s simple, p2w means spending money to gain an insurmountable advantage over those who don’t pay.
Joe blow buying arena carry’s because he sucks isn’t p2w
If anything it’s just buying cosmetics/titles with extra steps
Not the point. You don’t HAVE to spend the money. Folks just choose to for the easy path. But this is just my opinion like everyone else in the thread.
Your mileage may vary.
Changing goal posts. Before it was “buying a wow token means you win the game” and now it’s “tokens give you gold which you can get things over a span of time”
Can’t even keep his own stories straight this guy