What is the point to raiding in WoW?
To get gear
Are you able to spend real $$$ to get that gear?
Yes, by buying tokens and spending the gold on boosts
How are people trying to argue that isn’t P2W? I honestly don’t understand
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That’s amusing. I do admire you confidence to be told by 100 different people that you are wrong and yet you are still convinced you are right.
Just play the game lol
Do you know how the first 262 legendary came to be? Did someone p2w it!?
Because you’re not obtaining anything with that money, that another player can do for free
i find it amusing that you have nothing to say and think you know better TOP KEK
Carries aren’t inherently P2W. Carries have been in the game since inception, popularized by GDKPs and was pretty available on all servers by like WOTLK.
But ultimately carries are the vehicle to how the WoW token gets us closer to a P2W status since the token allows you to get involved in carries without playing the game. If they remove rhe WoW token the game is basically no longer P2W outside of for leveling, mount collection, toys, and relevant achievements and to most that level of P2W is fairly harmless and not a topic worth debating.
Again, in a vacuum I’d say they’re not, but the token botches the ability to just write of carries as not P2W. Without tokens if you want to raid in GDKPs or buy carries you have a time investment to make to get the gold (or you cheat by buying it on third party sites).
You say you’re more on board with legendaries/BoE purchases, but it seems rather arbitrary to say “Oh well if you buy gold to spend directly on items that’s a lot more P2W…but if you buy gold to buy carries to pick up/trade loot I mean that’s just not P2W” because it’s not like the legendaries or BoEs would exist without players as well.
I think people, myself initially included, get very hooked on the wording of the phrase P2W. I think if people just approach the question with “Does this game/feature allow me to spend money to be better off than others” the answer becomes a lot more clear rather than trying to parse everything down into specifics that are largely semantic. That doesn’t mean the feature is inherently bad if the answer is yes, but it does answer the immediate question.
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That is the whole design of p2w games is to pay for player convenience. There isn’t anything power related in lost ark that you wouldn’t be able to eventually achieve either but it’s going to take a lot longer.
I don’t see how you get rid of that though without completely destroying the player-run economy. The WoW token isn’t the thing that creates those 300 million gold loans, the need for so many consumables and gear within a short timespan is. World first guilds would still need all of that gear and consumables during race season and will still be willing to take out gold loans to get it. The loans aren’t given by Blizzard though and neither is the gold or consumables/gear themselves. That’s all just players trading with other players. So long as we all think it’s okay to buy a potion from another player for x amount of gold, that will always happen token or no token.
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But I can use that token for whatever I want. Hell, I don’t even have to sell the token on the AH. I can throw it in the bank and ignore it.
So how does that make WoW pay2win?
Yes because all you people are wording your replies to say that buying a token puts gear into your bag. It’s not simple. Blizzard refuses to give me gear for my hard earned cash so I don’t understand how that makes them pay2win.
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Wow is P2W with extra steps
Other games you just directly buy the thing you want with money
but you agree that blizzard does give you an option to buy carries using wow token…ez case closed
it’s not simple? why is it so hard for you to list your token on the ah and contact the spammers?
I think gnomes should get 80% discount on all carries because we are light and therefore easier to carry. And then another 20% off (additive not multiplicative) because we are so cute and we boost morale for all the people carrying. Like they get to see a cute gnome, and then instantly do way better because they are so happy. We should get a discount for that.
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Because a hundred other people have already said how it’s not pay to win. If you still don’t get it that’s on you and nothing anyone says will help.
Sure, it’s pay2win from boosters, not Blizzard.
I told Blizzard I would hand them $200 for gear but they said they don’t support that kind of transaction.
Yeah, you can buy gold from Blizzard to give to me, but you can also do it yourself. In other games you’re required to pay directly to get something. Not quite the same.
Negative. P2W games have things you cannot obtain in game, for a price.
If I could buy gear, directly for cash, then it would be a p2w game. But I cannot, therefore it is not.
Call it “Pay-To-Something” then.
Cards on the table: Anyone has the ability to give Blizzard their credit card and allow them to charge $1000, of which Blizzard directly pockets $250 of it. Blizzard then gives these premium players the capability of bartering with other players for funnels leading to the best gear in the game.
Is it a good thing for WoW that this is allowed to happen?
so you still don’t know anything but you’re hoping the hundred people do
That’s taking some leaps. The ability to pay players to play the game for you is different than paying for specific OP items in a cash shop. In a real pay to win, the only way to get the best items in the game are through some form of cash shop.
There is also a limit on how much you can spend, you can only buy 10 tokens/week on 1 account iirc.