Haha, I wish that’s what we got, bud.
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Not sure I agree with you here.
Min/maxers dont care if youre clearing raids, they only care about competing with those who are competing for the fastest clear times.
The only people who seem to be infuriated are the anti min/maxers.
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More people today seem to play online games as a weird, malevolent form of self-validation, and as a vehicle to seize the “control” that they are unable to take in the real world. I daresay that social media (& online games) have triggered all sorts of latent mental illnesses/defects & really brought them to the surface over the last decade or so.
Me, I’m still playing with the same MMORPG mindset that I have always had since the EQ/DAoC days: Relax, have fun, don’t rush it, don’t take the game too seriously, & enjoy the type content that I prefer to delve into - and avoid the content that either doesn’t interest me, or is filled with loads of toxic people who would just ruin it anyway (40 man raiding & PvP).
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Show me the “anti-min/maxer” post complaining that min/maxers are clearing raids too quickly. All I’ve seen are min/maxers complaining that raids are too easy and demanding “Classic+” with boss buffs.
You dont have to search far to find a thread regarding how min/maxers and the mentality of it is negative, which it isnt.
As for the min/maxers saying the game is too easy, thats because it is. It was launched that way given the patch we were provided.
There’s a difference between “the mentality is negative” (which I agree, it isn’t) and “the mentality is detrimental to your enjoyment of Classic,” which seems to be the case:
What do you consider initially? The servers have always been 3-5x the size they were in Vanilla.
Its not detrimental to your enjoyment of classic. If you do not agree with a team that is requiring min/maxing objectives then you do not have to join them, you have that choice. You not wanting to perform your best makes them not to run with you anyway, which is also their choice.
You can link all the posts you want, min/maxers are not complaining that you completing raids are ruining the game, they’re complaining because the raids and overall gameplay is easy. Anti min/maxers actively imply that min/maxers are ruining classic. Theres a big difference there. Both sides are asking for changes so your whole classic+ statement is moot anyway.
Please, show me the “anti-min/maxer” posts demanding changes. I have yet to see a single request for nerfs.
Only for themselves. They are not affecting my Classic experience in any way whatsoever (yet). If Blizzard caves in and starts implementing changes at their behest like they’ve done for Retail, then they will have ruined Classic. Until then, their experiences are a perpetual source of bemusement for me.
I don’t think it’s a modern game mindset thing.
I think that an old or solved game is generally going to always attract more min-maxers. Original release people were still figuring things out, and then a patch would come along and fundamentally change how things worked. Weapon normalization, negative resists, talent changes, gear changes; the game changed frequently. Min-maxers don’t like putting all their effort/resources into something and then a patch comes and breaks it.
Min-maxers thrive in a no-changes environment. It’s not unique to 2020 gamers.
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Anti min/maxers are asking for world buffs to not be allowed in instanced content. Almost any thread you go into regarding black lotus will have an anti min/max conspiracy theorist in it. You have the anti devilsaur mafia min/maxers… Theres a whole host of anti min/maxers you apparently have been conveniently overlooking.
Min/maxers are not ruining classic for themselves. When the only difficulty to the raid is logistics then the min/maxers are experiencing the only difficulty the content has to offer whereas the anti min/maxers are actively avoiding that difficulty.
Blizzard has made changes since day 1 of Classic. #Nochanges is a meme.
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Those are not anti-min/maxers. Those are min/maxers who lack the self-discipline to refrain from acquiring the buffs.
I think my idea of an anti-min/maxer is very different from yours. I think I can agree that those categories of players that you’re calling out are acting ridiculously. If you want to become a devilsaur leather tycoon or stack buffs, have at it. I’ve never understood players who want to remove an aspect of the game that so many others clearly enjoy.
Except the only difficulty isn’t “logistics.” The logistics you’re talking about minimize the difficulty during the raid. When you’re spending hours outside of the raid with the sole intent to minimize difficulty inside the raid, you get what you bargained for when the raid seems too easy. The typical player 2005 player just raided, and then they experienced the difficulty as intended.
This was the typical 2005 gamer checklist:
- Clear all the quests
- Level to max
- Clear all the dungeons
- Get raid attunements
- Beat the raid (once)
- Done. I beat the game.
This is the 2020 gamer checklist:
- Optimize my way to max, skipping as many quests as possible
- Get pre-raid BiS
- Get attunements
- Get the raid on farm
- Raid until I get BiS
- Complain that there isn’t enough content for me and/or that the game was too easy
No, Blizzard did! Ffs, hold Blizzard responsible for their terrible decisions, don’t give them a pass by blaming the publisher.
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It’s incompatible with the “I think I’m a lot better than I really am and am gonna go pro one day” mindset.
The game’s horrifically broken, almost to an unplayable level, when viewed through this lens.
blizzard died when activision became involved. These aren’t blizzard games anymore…they are activision games.
So you’re not going to actually blame Blizzard for their terrible decisions and instead let Activision be the scapegoat. Got it.
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there is no blizzard…only activision
That’s so dumb though. Instead of holding Blizzard accountable for everything they’ve done to this game your putting all the blame on some corporate boogeyman. Blizz must love having customers that refuse to even acknowledge they’ve done anything wrong
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blizzard doesn’t exist except in a brand name…why can’t you see that…
The whole argument is kind of a distraction. Activision-Blizzard has literally published hundreds of games. I wouldn’t be surprised if Bobby Kotick didn’t know WoW Classic from Shadowlands. This idea that the game went to the crapper because the corporate overlords tainted the batter with their filthy hands is silly. The corporate overlords provide general guidance, and the WoW team decides what to do with that guidance. If you’re unhappy with the details, then the fault lies with the WoW team, not with Activision-Blizzard. Kotick didn’t say, “Make raids so insanely hard that no one in their right mind would touch them.” He didn’t then direct anyone to try to justify the insane difficulty by splitting the same raid out into four difficulties to make it “accessible.” He didn’t personally ask to take the game focus off the adventure through Azeroth and move it to loot acquisition instead. That was something the WoW team did in 2012 on their own.
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