I freaking love the changes. I only hope that bgs start pop alot more often then they do now. Oh, and AV to make an appearance out side of AV weekend. =)
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Seems like you have a problem with easy raids. Did you experience the harder raids in SoM?
If Blizz keeps the SoM raid changes in the next seasonal server, along with this new PvP system: I’m pretty sure you would see more people with PvP gear after 2 months than Rag loot.
Made another rank on my Pala last week farming bots… Rank 7 now, got the gloves and boots for my Banana suit.
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This is not present in ERA so its semi pointless to the conversation at hand… Also we don’t know what we’re getting for SoM2, could be an entirely different thing. Right now tho, on era the new system seems solid even if I gotta wait a week.
It depends what the final honor number ends up being, before a determination can be made.
A 500k cap makes the ranks significantly more attainable for people, and may result in a healthier game play experience for those attempting the grind, as well as increased pvp participation given that it is a significantly more viable gearing methodology. The potential negatives being that it could devalue the “prestige” and rarity of those ranks. I know I have and continue to pvp more than most people would ever admit to… I got a prestige 500 mount in retail before legion even ended because I pvpd soo much, and I’ve never once gotten anywhere close to r14 making attempts in og vanilla, classic, and SoM. I am confident I can hit a 500k weekly cap without significant issue.
A 750k cap honestly doesn’t change much at the top end basically at all… Most people outside of AV weeks or 40 hours of dedicated premades aren’t going to be doing those kinds of numbers. For smaller realms, 750k might even be more (maybe even significantly more) than it would have taken under the old system. For the higher pop realms, 750k is roughly where (maybe a touch below) where most servers would have their “mafia” point caps set weekly (again barring AV weekends, point caps always went up on those because solo players could no life bracket break that week if caps didnt go up)
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I am in favor of the 500k, and even that is a lot of casual players but at the same time keeps the Rank 10 items very much in reach of casual players. Right now with 1.3M+ or higher caps life is hard for a lot of people who don’t have the kinda time to PVP… Last time I checked the cap on WM it was 1.3M (alliance), I think that was 2 weeks ago.
As a result BG’s are dead because of absurd caps; because players know they cant really progress.
500K is kinda perfect, Makes PVP goals achievable for anyone who wants to put in the time, without destroying their health and life over it.
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My point is that he keeps bringing up that raids are too easy.
His problem is with the raids (which was fixed in SoM btw). Not the PvP system.
You really have zero clue on the matter on which you’re talking about.
You need to stop posting about pvp/pve. You don’t know wtf you’re talking about.
Not that it matters; your suggestion isn’t being implemented.
Cope
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Ah, ok I was a bit confused then. My bad. Either way I think the new system is rather awesome, I think it will make PVP more popular.
Classic wow isn’t designed as a game where you exclusively do pvp content. If that’s what people like to do there’s two other versions of the game tailored around that play style. I’m not sure why you’d complain about having to raid for gear when you could just instal wrath or dragon flight if you hate dungeons. It’s the one version of wow you can’t level through bgs or with an exclusive pvp stat.
That’s what makes vanilla cool. You gotta do a bit of everything to actually have fun and “play” the game.
Too much focus on 1 reference frame = boring / doa (som)
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Im not criticizing you personally but the general attitude of your standard “sweaty premade” that we saw after BGs were put in Classic (if not a little before with the honor patch - look what happened to pvp servers). You have always been very positive about your experiences so Im inclined to believe you weren’t a part of the premades that drove people to the forums and out of the queues. You knew them and rubbed shoulders with them but you weren’t one of them.
Your run of the mill solo BG hero has the realistic expectation (or should) they are going to lose badly some of the time. You can queue onto a very bad team just as easily and randomly as running into a premade.
Some people will deny this but there’s a big difference between losing to a premade and being subjected to a premade. Using WSG as an example there’s the premade that’s just going to very quietly and professionally bury you 3-0 and let you move on with your day and then there’s the guys that go up 2-0, hold your flag and sit outside your GY spamming emotes for 20-30 min farming the people who are dumb enough to respawn or just coming into the game (which sucks) in place of the people that left.
Except this time around, you ran into teams like that a several times a day as opposed to a few times a month and it takes its toll over time. Swapping factions didnt make a difference.
Why is the change being made? Its not like it came outta nowhere for no reason - classic pvp had problems and they outlined them in the post noting the change. Coincidentally, I might add, the very day after I gave those very reasons in another thread why premades ruined pvp and was told by another premader I didnt know what I was talking about - not because Im a genius but because the problems were so obvious to me and to Blizzard and many others. The vanilla system was just no longer viable assuming it ever was.
The players made this change. They gave Blizz had no other choice. I agree too, it is a retail change - because that’s who is playing Classic. We cant have vanilla WoW because very few people actually want that.
That’s people pulling their posts out of a crackerjack box. Its tough but Im trying to get into the habit of simply not responding to stuff like that. There are reasons to not like this change and be against it. I have mixed feelings myself - Im nochanges but Im in the minority and there’s been a slew of changes already. The way Im looking at it to justify it is the change does address what I saw with my own two eyes with the potential to open it up for more people to get involved - not always the best thing mind you but it cant be worse than how Classic played out.
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I understand why this was a problem for you. Really the premades should have been moving on instead of farming you for 30 mins because that doesn’t even really make sense, but I do believe you when you say you that you kept seeing it. No, my teams didn’t do that.
Even though you saw it on both sides I wouldn’t doubt that in Classic it was happening more to the alliance as the horde had the queues and were trying to squeeze out honor. For Classic there was at least one ally team that made a goal of sitting on the roof and holding horde premades in the game until the FCs and the group lead left while they blew through hundreds of gold worth of consumes and streamed it, the whole point was to have the horde sit there and also lose their 2.5 hour AV queue honor bonus, but that was a one-off.
Really though, I know you love pugging, but from day one I’ve found the BGs better with a team or at least people who care. When I was looking up that screenshot shown in the thread earlier I saw that old post I shared with you. That was from one month after WSG was released and in 2005 I knew things like class balance would make a difference even though I didn’t know the ins and outs of the things like the best FC.
Honestly, I think the devs sat at a round table and were talking about how hardcore isn’t for PVPers and someone came up with this idea. The current devs seem very into their “innovations” over all else and I say this from the Wrath changes.
I’m never going to be a big fan of Era changes. I’m fine with almost anything for their seasons projects.
I think you’re right, but that isn’t why I want to play Era and I also would rather stand up for the people who want this game to be like the real game.
I already left Wrath because I can’t relate to that player base and when I try Retail I play on RP servers but don’t even try to do group stuff because I just don’t like the atmosphere. So having something like Era stay the same would be nice, but I guess the same group that destroyed the rest of the WoW with their terrible personalities, spreadsheet obsessions, and extreme selfishness has to be here too because hey why not seek out to ruin the entire game? 
You are right, I try. It becomes a problem when I can relate to someone on another topic so I put them in my mind in the “good guy, not just some forum troll” category, and then they do that… and then I have to question them and decide if I ever even want to speak to them again… because to me they just come off as another scummy jerk who deserves the same respect that I give a fruit fly, and I won’t forget either. That’s more for personal attacks on my real-life than anything. Anyway with how these forums are you need somewhat of a thick skin to post at all.
That’s why I replied like that to Harland. I’m ok with us disagreeing on this but I like him and so seeing that was a surprise, even though I don’t think it was that bad or intended as some insult and certainly not a personal one, but over time it builds up.
Harland is right though about me keeping things briefer to the majority. It’s just going to require me to take some empathy out but I guess that’s how it is. Keeping it to some brainless one-liner isn’t happening though.
Even for this post, I’m sure some people are like “Oh god, Mootwo and Corpseknife are writing novels again, time to swipe all the way down on my phone” because they come to forums to read 8-word posts for some unknown reason but I don’t care here I’m only posting to talk to you.
I can respect that and I do understand what people like about this new system in general. Many times I’ve praised it for being well-received. I also think there was real thought put into it. I’m not sure how much it’s going to cut down on the premades though, but there may be more pug vs pug games as the people who don’t want to organize play may queue more often.
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You’re not alone.
I just wanted both you and Mootwo to know that I read each of your responses to one another and it pretty much sums up why I am a bit conflicted about this adjustment as I can see why players with differing experiences would have divergent reactions to it. I also wanted to thank you for laying out the details and walking through the why this change is not necessarily a home run for everyone, respecting there are valid concerns on either side of the issue.
Which is fine. I enjoyed the conversation simply as an observer. The content is what matters not just the word count. Less is not always more.
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then there’s the guys that go up 2-0, hold your flag and sit outside your GY spamming emotes for 20-30 min farming the people who are dumb enough to respawn or just coming into the game (which sucks) in place of the people that left.
Only 20-30 minutes? That’s casual stuff
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It’s amusing that you don’t realize that you’re viewed the same way.
Except I’m introspective and self-aware enough to know that and don’t care because the feeling is almost always mutual.
I laughed.
Aloud.
I must have been asleep. PVP and PVE servers are now competing in the same battlegrounds? The point of my original post still stands though. AV needs to be up 20+ hours a day or the new system isn’t going to fair so well.
This depends on a couple things. How much honor is needed for the lower ranks and rank 11-13. Is AV going to be up during the week is another big question that won’t be answered until this goes live. Because of all the bracket boosting that was occurring, I’m doubtful that this is going to be an easier system for people aiming for lower ranks. That may lead to a shortage of pugs for those Naxx geared wsg/ab carry groups to farm, especially after week one. On the back end rank 12-14 there is no doubt this is going to be easier and especially easier for those trying to max out straight from rank 0-14. To get more participation ranking can’t be dependent on joining a Naxx geared carry group.