Is the game too complicated or are we just old?

Community General Discussion
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I’ve been playing since 2004, and I was a player of the Warcraft RTS games before that, so I can’t help but be old now. And I’ve been feeling like the game is too complicated now, but I don’t know if it’s the game or me.

To try to sum up how I feel, it’s like every system in the game is overly complicated, but not too overly complicated to deal with on their own, but there’s just so, so, so many systems, and how they interact is also overly complicated. Every system is just so dense it’s hard to dig into them without somehow understanding all the other systems. Nothing is simple, other than maybe leveling- do quests, kill stuff, get exp.

Like, professions used to be easy. Make stuff, level up, learn recipes, get mats, makes stuff, repeat, repeat. Now… good lord.

Rep used to be simple. Do stuff for a faction get faction rep. Or, even better, put on a faction tabard and do stuff. Now… oof. Heck, even all rep unlocks have to be bought with combinations of random trash instead of just gold or island supplies (or whatever its called from expansion to expansion).

Choosing talents used to be simple. The original trees didn’t have that many options. Then came the too simple three options per talent tier. Now… holy crap! And they’re adding more next expansion.

Feels like you can pick any system in DF and it’ll be more complicated than it needs to be. Well, maybe not dragonflying (even though even it is hard to completely figure out with out a guide on how to cheese it with that degenerate play skyward assent trick that they designed everything around instead of fixing).

2/28/24 Edit to add:

I’m only like four and a half minutes into this video and, well, it doesn’t “prove my point” but it does highlight the kind of thing I’m talking about. Just listen to how convoluted it is to to just upgrade some gear. Why does it have to be this way? “To do this you need to do that, but to do that you need to do this, but to do this you’ll need that currency, to get that currency you need to do this content, to do this content you need to unlock that content, but to unlock that content…” Why? Why does this game need to be World of Spreadsheets?

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Neither, actually. I am just a terrible gamer who loves gaming.

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Calling yourself old is never an excuse. To me, those are just quitting words.

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Im older, iv been playing since 2006… i think it all comes down to how much you play , anything can be leaned if theres motivation

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I agree with this part.
It does seem stupid having to track down random junk in order to buy something.

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The current set up isnt the end of my world, but I do wish they had done it like old talents were with picking the one of three each time. I actually liked that.
You hit level 10…heres three DPS options to choose from. Pick one.
another at level 11, and so on.

The tree feels like its trying to force me, for example, to take cat form talents if I want to get to X, but I dont want to take cat form talents to get to X.
eh…just a gripe.

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Speaking of “old”…

GRUMBLES! YOU HAVE NEW ORDERS! ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY ORDERS OF STRAWBERRY CHEESECAKE COOKIES!

GET BACK TO WORK!

Angry manager noises…

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You can look at how quickly classic raids get cleared for your answer.

The game has only been getting more complicated over time.

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Eh, I think your critique held water for the past few expansions. Dragonflight, not so much.

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Well thats cuz people from retail went to classic which classic was alot easier back then… Funny thing is they still ask for logs, and stuff on classic

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It’s a pretty simple game for the most part

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People who played old MMOs are typically used to complicated systems.

The complaints regarding WoW and complexity seemingly come from people who are accustomed to modern gaming.

Things have come a long way since EQ, including different standards and expectations. The thing is though that there is still a consumer desire for complexity and depth in MMOs as opposed to turning every MMO into a MOBA.

Commercially successful MMOs like WoW and ESO sit at a point where modern features are available but the game attempts to balance out complexity with reward.

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Professions are complicated only because they’re so expensive to experiment with. Talents, you can just hang out with a DPS meter and a training dummy and see what you like.

I actually didnt mind the “buy item with bits of trash”, I think it helps engage the player with the world. In the end you’re going to be on Wowhead anyway, why stop now.

That said yea, I do rely on the Community, those far more passionate about this system than I to help overcome the vast array of choices available to us.

I also think the DF systems weren’t to bad. They were easily accessible, readily available to everyone. I liked the crest system as it helped keep players in content they should be doing, rather than content they just cheese through because they “have” to be there. “What’s this M+15 geared guy doing in my random heroic?”

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Too complicated for whom? I’ve played since 2006, and while I concede it’s gotten more complicated over the years, I wouldn’t say it’s “too” complicated. But for a new or returning player or someone opposed to using add-ons or external guides, it quite possibly is too complicated.

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Classic doesn’t equal Vanilla.

Vanilla was culturally defining for MMOs. WoW had much higher subs and for most it was their first MMO. Even old school MMO players weren’t accustomed to bosses with mechanics like in WoW. It was socially totally different to Classic, where players had ~15 years to climatise to the impact that gameplay had on the genre.

Everyone has gotten sick of MMOs copying WoW over the last 20 years, but you can’t have that attitude and also reject how defining Vanilla was to the MMO genre at the time, and how the majority of the player base had never even played an MMO before.

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It’s both, and it’s neither.

All of those levels of complexity exist… BUT… the devs want us oldies to keep playing, so most of the game is fine just being “good enough,” and not requiring that we embrace every option.

I have over 40 alts, and most of them will likely remain on the starter build forever, and the game is responsible for that being good enough for most of the content, and that has literally been the case every time.

I used to have an altoholism-powered crafting empire, and now every alt is a double gatherer (miner/herbalist usually, for XP) who regularly upends their reagent bag at an auctioneer’s feet. It’s never hindered me, and it shouldn’t, because crafting is optional, and the rest is good enough.

When normal or heroic dungeons, LFR or access-level delves start requiring more engagement than “good enough is good enough,” the game will die. They know this, so you can relax, engage at your leisure, and know that most of the game is still for us oldies too.

It’s important to know your limit, and play within it. A pyramid is narrowest at the top, and that’s how this game is designed. There’s a lot of comfortable open space beneath that top pinnacle of the pyramid. Let the people that need to be the point of the pyramid fight over it, and relax.

If you can let go of the need to compete with everyone, this is a lovely game to grow old with.

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As long as you don’t skip an expansion or come late it isn’t too bad but it would be terrible for a new player to pick up and try to do the content in each expansion.

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I think it’s fine

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Tbh the game is easier than what it was in classic to a degree.

Sure some things could be fixed to where it’s more streamlined but… honestly it isn’t too too complicated.

Game still has all those old RPG elements.

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If you, like me, want to be a generalist/altoholic who doesn’t commit fully to any class/spec and wants to just experience a little bit of everything, then yes, the game is way too complicated to really get anywhere. At the end of every expansion, I end up with 20-40 max-level characters, none of whom are well geared or maxed out on professions.

But I think that if you can commit to a specifc playstyle and stay in just one or two gameplay silos, you can reach a high level of expertise and success. There are so many great resources out there that help you play at your best and can make just about any player competitive.

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