The vote on genocide wasn’t a vote to kill the leadership. It wasn’t a vote to kill the best warriors. It was a vote to kill everyone who happened to be an Orc. If it had passed it would have included Thrall and, if he had lived, probably would have included Durotar.
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The blood elves share the sin. But a sin it still is.
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It depends on what you mean by payback but nah probably not lol. The writers think turning Darkshore into an eternally contested warfront is payback.
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How can it be a sin? It was the best the Alliance could do under the HORRIBLE circumstance the Horde put them in. Terenas wanted to rehabilitate the orcs. At worse they could have done a better job at it, but the whole lethargy thing made it harder. Not mention those that didnt get captured were STILL WAGING A WAR against the Alliance.
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Well for starters orcs arent human and its not like theres humanoid rights laws for all peoples in Azeroth of any kind. Secondly theyre mass murderers, child killers and many are also rapists.
At a certain point I feel the basic “right to life” can be dropped when you consider all of this, especially when the Orcs ravaged a whole planets worth…but then again who knows.
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Careful dudes, cause THIS form of thinking basically condones evil acts like the burning of Teldrassil (especially when you yourselves admit there´s no “human rights” convention in Azeroth). Political thinking IS subjective and people can ALWAYS twist it to fulfill their own agendas as long as there´s no law and regulations to control it… Sylvanas did EXACTLY this to convince Saurfang in “A Good War”.
Are you guys implying the Nelf massive murder in Teldrassil is A-ok? Cause sorry, but if genocide is “good enough” for the orcs then it´s good enough for everybody, period.
A free advice: don´t be so hasty to defend genocide; not even if the people subjected to it has bad elements that deserve it. The fact is NOT ALL the member of a race are ever deserving of such fate, and justice MUST carefully and objectively pick the ones deserving of losing their lives.
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So seriously considering committing genocide on an entire race is the best the Alliance could have done? In fact, they showed themselves it wasn’t necessary?
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Well, I feel you want to “own” Alliance hatred and I can respect that. But lets be clear that you are “dehumanizing” every person of an entire race, down to orphan children and blaming for being enslaved by and evil power that and Alliance race brought to their planet. And that, by extending that to the Horde, you blaming every orphan from every other race in the Horde.
It also kind of looses the moral high ground in the wars. Because if you refuse to even grant a right to exist, the otherside can hardly be expected to do so.
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It is actually a pretty grey question.
I mean, even in most American movies about hostile alien invaders today, no one really cares or mentions “equal rights” or showing mercy to them as fellow living beings, it’s just about shooting and getting rid of any alien you see at any cost, a matter of survival and preserving your race’s future above all else.
But it must be said that the orcs as a people and a nation have changed greatly since. Whether they have changed enough is another question.
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Looking at Theramore’s crater, Teldrassil’s ashes and Brennadam’s shishkebabs, I’d say no.
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Oh course, in the last patch of the expansion when you raid another horde city!
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I just want to point out because it’s very easy for us players to have meta knowledge as well as the power of omni narrative, but the horde gave the alliance zero chances at diplomacy back in war 1-2. From the Alliance’s point of view, an army of unrelenting evil just appeared out of nowhere and is hellbent on exterminating all previous life on your planet. This is an alien invasion, a demonic take over and each orc you’ve ever seen is like a hellbeast of your worst nightmare.
There is no talk, there is no surrender, there is no appeasing except with the death of everyone you know and love including yourself. Also the only exception, a half orc woman became buddy buddy only so she could murder your empire from the inside out (no it wasn’t garonas’ fault but how else was it going to look)
This wasn’t a war the alliance could even win, they were losing hand over fist at every juncture and it was only a miracle at the last bastion of humanity that they subsided. Why? Because the horde appeared to have jumped the gun and were now killing each other. It was only after this bloodlust overdrive that the alliance got an opening to start pushing back.
So yeah, I don’t know why you’d let any of them on your planet live. There’s probably billions more on their home world ready to kill you if you don’t stop them here and now.
It’s a really impossible situation to be put in and it’s the reason the alliance split in half over the choice.
On the other hand, as people said, many free orcs were still waging war and people like Saurfang and Grom prove that there were still a lot of war 1-2 orcs still around within this -new- horde. Thrall and the other young adults shouldn’t have had to live through the camps but this was barely a single generation since genocidal green men from Mars showed up to wreak shop.
Now I’ve said this before but part of the issue is that so many people on both the alliance and horde side are written like un-apologetic macho men that would beat you up for even suggesting they might not be perfect and blameless in all things. Thrall might be the most pure orc seeing as he never took part nor did his parents but even he looks at the camps and goes “we were slaves to our emotions because of the demons so how dare the humans punish us extra for things they could never have known. I’ll never forgive them! The humans I mean, the demons are jerks too I guess.”
I’m being silly but that’s kind of how the narrative seems to express itself and that’s really ridiculous. The alliance are no better of course since they tend to also use odd snippets of meta knowledge to help them come to the wrong conclusions too but cripes
It’s just irksome.
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Thats the issue isnt it? The Alliance always raid and never get to destroy anything.
No payback.
Only the Horde is allowed to do that.
So it gets boring.
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Yeah, that’s pretty much what I’ve been saying.
Bonus on Thrall: Raised by humans. The only orc to make any real headway against their bloodlust from within the horde was raised to the values of the Alliance.
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Kudos on the realization that the factions are treated differently. You picked the lawful good hero faction, and they are not going to be driven by petty revenge, even when taking on the mantle of a goddess’ vengeance.
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We don’t like doing that is the thing, we get shamed and shamexd and shamed.
I honestly do think blizz has zero cares about what they write about hordewise. They treat us as if we are the villains to the alliance and nothing more. We want to be the heroes not the villains, but blizzard refused to write it that way.
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Are you kidding? In every interview its about Horde, Horde, Horde.
The Horde got two cinematic shorts as well for War of Thorns.
It seems the mere fact that Alliance seems to be acknowledged seems to be a defeat for you guys,
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This right here is why the “but internment camps!” argument falls flat on it’s face. Life imprisonment as punishment for attempting to systematically destroy all life on a planet when the only other alternatives are killing them all or letting them go free to keep trying.
Not a bad deal.
Won’t stop people from going “Internment Camps!” whenever they need to try and prove the Alliance is EBUL.
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Except Alterac arranged an alliance with the Horde. So that seems untrue.
They also allied with the Amani.
The Alliance actually had the advantage and won a fair number of battles. The entire Horde strategy was ‘blitz them because they’re stronger than us’.
No. because that’ s not how the expansion is structured. The Horde has its moments, and the Alliance has theres, neither is “payback” for the other. What you do have is change, and some of it is very permaent, such as Darnassus and UnderCity. Both Alliance and Horde have the permanent loss of one capital.