I doubt they will. That would require at least decimating one of the horde factions, probably the orcs, which will never happen. Even after the war is finished the Horde will still be pressed for resources just as they were before which was part of Saurfang’s reasoning for the war. Despite his best efforts I highly doubt Tyrande or Malfurion will give one ounce to the horde no matter who leads and they’d be right not to.
A part of me thinks that in order for them to have justice or revenge is that the horde would have to loose something big, but that would happen because it would change the balance of the game, but then I remember Teldrassil.
I’ll find it later but a thread a few months back wonderfully outlined why the Alliance couldn’t press the advantage at the end of SoO (I believe the general message was, simply, they couldn’t.) The “peace” was forced period.
It lasted until Ashran. Horde took pot shots immediately.
Someone punches you in the face, your buddy doesn’t get to call the fight over before you get to hit them back. But here we are with exactly what you’ll say when Blizz contrives another “peace” before the Kaldorei get to do crap about being driven to near extinction. “Whoa you guys. Too far. We were at peace because we got distracted by another crappy plot thread, remember?!”
Gilneas deserved retribution. The Kaldorei now do. There’s no time limit and no High Grand Supreme King Del Grande™ gets to call it off.
He was part of the Alliance and accepted the terms. If he didn’t like it, he should have pushed for different terms or left.
That’s irrelevant to the fact that both sides still agreed to it.
Firstly, there’s no conclusion as to who did anything first in Ashran. Secondly, we have it straight from soldiers at Ashran that the treaty was still in effect despite the skirmishes there. Thirdly, you know as well as I do that Ashran is an irrelevant mess.
If Genn wanted to do something then, he should have done exactly what Tyrande is doing now. Nobody forced him to agree, it was his prerogative.
He had every right to attack Sylvanas, even during peace time, for his revenge. Because during peace time? The Forsaken attacked his nation. Unprovoked. Also attacked Southshore during peace. Also butchered and melted farmers during peace. Also freaking melted down people’s dogs for laughs. During peace.
So spare me your partisan-biased chiding now about peace time aggression please?
The Forsaken deserve everything they’ve had happen to them, and more. Awful little people.
He should have done it at the time rather than agree to a treaty and break it.
Laughable.
The Forsaken and Gilneas didn’t have a treaty agreeing to peace between the two of them.
Also attacked Southshore during peace.
Incorrect.
Even under your own faulty interpretation of events your justification boils down to “Two wrongs DO make a right”, and ironically enough provides Sylvanas complete support to have launched the War of Thorns.
Threads like these irk me because of the ridiculous double standards that start getting applied.
Just because Undercity wasn’t lost in the same way that Teldrassil was lost doesn’t mean the resource is not removed from the map. It only seems like “no one cares” because that’s how Blizz has chosen to write it and to me at least it’s supremely frustrating how Teldrassil is being used to catalyze (well-deserved, might I add) change within the Night Elves, whereas Lordaeron has become a narrative black hole that means absolutely nothing.
Is it frustrating how the Battle for Undercity went down? Sure! That’s a perfectly valid complaint to have. But then you have to acknowledge that it was quite frustrating for many Horde players to have to be complicit in an atrocity committed as a spur of the moment temper tantrum. You also have to acknowledge that the Horde has basically not stopped losing for this entire expansion since that point. You, OP, and Blizzard, are apparently hell-bent on making the Horde players suffer for something they had no choice in.
This is what annoys me. “Undercity didn’t go the way we wanted, so we need more.” “Dazar’alor wasn’t quite what we wanted, and anyway Teldrassil was terrible, so it doesn’t count and we want more.” Just as Horde players didn’t get to choose their “victory” at Teldrassil - which has led to a supremely reviled MoP rehash - you don’t get to sit there and cherry-pick what kind of victory you want to have.
In short? No. No we will not. Because if it’s anything we’ve been able to learn from BFA and the pre-launch events, and from Elegy, it’s that Blizzard would rather use the Kaldorei as their disposable race to generate conflict and beat on for the enjoyment of the other playable races, rather than some boring, un-interesting race like humans.
Because I don’t know about you guys, But when I come to play a fantasy game, I sure want to play a human. Eyeroll
If you want proof that Blizzard is using Night Elves to generate content for other races, specifically the Horde? Look no further than Delaryn Summermoon. By far the most interesting, promising Night Elf character we’ve seen added to the Lore in like… forever. And they killed her off faster than they killed off Vol’jin’s useless hide during Legion. Whats more, not only did they kill her, they proceeded to spit in the faces of every Night Elf player in the game when they raised her and made her into a mindless Sylvanas yuppie.
Her reasons for “joining” (if you can call being forcibly raised into undeath joining) the Forsaken are completely invalid. She thought her people abandoned them, when she knew the fleet was desperately trying to get back to them. She thought Elune abandoned them, when Elune was what made it so those who died in Teldrassil felt no pain in their final moments. (Grant you, yes, unknown to her).
TL:DR - No. We will not, because Blizzard hates Night Elves and loves to kick us while we’re down and use it to springboard uninteresting fanfic they call content into the mainstream.
Anyways, my apologies for the rant. Bit of a sore spot for me. lol
I usually don’t engage with you because I find you have little of value to contribute to any discussion.
But this whole thread is essentially saying that Horde players’ frustration over the path they’ve taken is not valid, and that Alliance players need more Horde loss in order to be satisfied. Etheldald posted a long list of reasons why UC and Dazar’alor “don’t count” and you need more and that, to me, is a load of sh!t.
I know, I know. You have far more pressing matters to attend to like policing what people say and being a massive drenched blanket everywhere you drag your carcass.
This thread was about how Alliance players felt. Its not all about you all the time. Feel free to move on back over to one of the Horde pity parade threads for a refueling if this is taxing you emotionally.
The Forsaken didn’t agree to a peaceful resolution with Arthas, they were at war the entire time.
No. Nations without agreements in place only have a de-facto peace. Disrupting that is not the same as signing on to a treaty and breaking it. The former is simply aggression, the latter is betrayal.
Ignoring that this is a complete aside in which you’re suggesting the Night Elves are morally equivalent to the Forsaken and not at all benefitting whatever argument you’re trying to make, the Night Elves and the Alliance were in fact also betraying the Blood Elves through masking their subterfuge as diplomacy.
But yes, you’re massively damaging your own position by taking this point.
This is not how analogies work. The suggestion is that per your reasoning, during peace its okay to attack people. Because that is what the Forsaken did. Multiple times. During a signed armistice no less. Betrayal is a great word for what they did to the northlands and their inhabitants. Thanks!
Alliance won’t get a payback for War of Thorns because they’re already having it in Battle of Dazar’alor according to their interview in November. It’s not same but that’s what they said and there seems to be a huge disconnect between Blizz and what players sees.
I think Jellex deconstructed where the disconnect is perfectly. (I love you for this post!)