I have lost count of the BM and MM hunters that have whispered me after completing a dungeon; wishing they could main as Survival. Due to the data logs running the game, guilds/friends dedicatie their spec for a raid spots and keys. I won’t argue the moral or practical merits of this, but will say that if the data logs weren’t as influential as they are; that 5% would be a lot higher.
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No one has ever denied that Hunters also had melee weapons in Classic. What’s undeniable, however, is that ranged weapons were the primary, iconic focus of the class. The description says as much and even makes a distinction between Hunters and classes that primarily use melee weapons.
Classic WoW Hunters are not the “melee Hunter roots” SV players like to think they are. All workable modes of playing a Hunter back then used a ranged weapon and staying at range for as much as possible was always ideal. Contrast that to the current SV Hunter which can’t do 100% of its damage potential unless it’s in melee range.
Oh look, this craptastic take again.
As it turns out there’s more to a spec than the weapon it uses. That’s why we have three Rogue specs that all dual-wield one-handed melee weapons but we don’t go mutilating Rogue specs just for the sake of having “something different”.
This doesn’t mean much when it’s “own definition” is being inherently handicapped. Specs tend to make their own definition by building on the base class not taking away from it.
Ranged SV had its own definition and it made sense. It took parts of the base class and meaningfully improved and added upon them.
A) Only true before 1.7 which was basically an utterly unfinished version of the class
B) Being ranged was part of being a Hunter. It wasn’t like how it is now where each spec was a totally different micro-class. Talents for the most part enhanced stuff that was already there; most of the gameplay and identity came from the base class.
As you said, though, classic SV was not comparable to current SV. It currently lacks a ranged weapon and has to be in melee range to achieve 100% of its damage potential. SV in classic primarily used a ranged weapon and was most optimal at range.
It was these new devs that made melee Survival, and they turned a formerly popular and widely enjoyed ranged spec into the most reviled and avoided melee spec in the game. I know you have some psychological justifications to call that an “improvement” but people who aren’t biased wouldn’t come to that conclusion.
Yes, they rewrote the class description after the fact to retroactively justify melee Survival, and the melee parts of that description are just as awkwardly tacked on as they are in the actual class. The description I linked was the manual description from 2004. The point of it is to show that the class was absolutely intended to be centred around ranged weapons.
Oh, please. Survival Hunters have been making up stories like this for literal years. You can still find old posts of people doing it back in 2017. It has absolutely never materialised into widespread adoption of the spec. Maybe there aren’t countless Hunters waiting on the sidelines to play it if only it did a little more damage and it is in fact something most Hunters don’t want out of the class?
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I wasn’t aware that I should of been collecting screen shots of the forementioned hunters, redacting names, and having their remarks available upon request, lol. Given the nature of this thread I should of known that I would have to defend any point on a dissertation level. That is my error in judgment.
I’ll ask the burning question, with the highest degree of respect. What keeps bringing you back here, over and over again? Despite any of the points or critical analyses you have offered, you continue to provoke the ire of the forum. Granted most of those will be probably be Survival hunters, but what is it that you are trying to accomplish?
Edit: Apologies, I didn’t answer your question. Yes, of course: all of us would take any extra damage that Blizzard is willing to give us.
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- Yes they absolutely are.
- You dont play the spec and continue to spout off things you dont understand.
There are videos online of melee spell hunters who were viable for dungeon farming in Classic WoW. They out preformed everyone else with the right gear and enchantings and buffs.
You sound like its impossible for melee to out do ranged which is just copium and delusional af
You just undid your argument on another post.
I am starting to think you are just angry because a Survival hunter out preformed you and you came here to mald
And now its in the MM spec. GG you still got what you want.
Nice way to weave through what the hunter was meant to be to try and boost your own egotistical opinion again.
Now whos into conspiracy theories? I had someone whisper me saying they loved my hunter being an undead survival hunter a few months ago and told me not to change from that race. Needless to say I wanted to be green.
He is high on copium. Its his only way to cope with his failures in game.
Judging by briefly looking at his profile I would say he is being very successful at MM during this expansion. That being said, I understand the two of you have beef and are continually throwing jabs at each other.
I’m not here to break up the fight or perpetuate it. I am simply very curious as to what his continuing motives are. I figured a different mode of communication couldn’t hurt.
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Oh I know, I even congratulated him for getting far with MM. I was referring to not being to move on with his life over a brief time his version of my spec was in game.
He just enjoys complaining about nothing. Sometimes the loneliest people just want someone to give them attention. I do say that with sincerity because I feel like he really is lonely and just wants someone to listen to his complaints. I get it. But going on for 6 years is just exhausting id imagine.
I don’t buy stories like that because SV Hunters talk up their spec to ridiculous levels. I routinely see bold claims proven directly wrong via warcraftlogs and despite post after post after post for years on end about how melee SV’s reputation is improving and its finest hour is coming it never materialises. In its 5th year it remains the least popular spec in the game.
Because I care about the class and Survival being melee is bad for the class. I hear all sorts of mental gymnastics about how we are better off for Survival being melee but all I see is a) a spec that builds most of its identity on lacking a core feature of the class and b) the overwhelming majority of Hunters staying away from it. I’ve not seen any compelling reason as to why it should remain melee. Even the weird, directionless design it has now only with a ranged weapon instead of a melee one would be far better for the class. At least then we could reconcile the so-called “primal survivalist” fighting up close while throwing grenades. Yet all the Warrior and Rogue rerolls hold fast against that out of some sense of pride in SV remaining melee.
At this point, though, I’m under no illusions that they’ll ever go back on the decision. Blizzard double down on their terrible design like no one else in the industry to the point where they’re sinking the entire game. Survival is a languishing spec in a languishing game and that’s how it will always be remembered from now on. So I’ll just keep pointing out that the emperor has no clothes and Survival can be a cautionary tale against niche specs replacing mainstream specs.
No, that wasn’t the question. It was rhetorical. SV Hunters often pretend the spec is 1 numerical buff away from being mainstream. I still remember seeing people in the SV discord insisting that once Raptor Strike is buffed and SV’s single target is fixed people would flock to it. It got that buff and nothing changed. That scenario has repeated itself time and time again since Legion.
That’s Method’s world 3rd Gul’dan kill in which they have a Survival Hunter, making this the highest-profile boss kill a melee Survival Hunter has ever achieved (contrast to ranged SV that was routinely a part of world firsts even as late as T17 in WoD). You can see people in the comment section cheering on SV and how everyone’s going to play it now. That was 4 years ago.
Metroid’s content, according to him, exists in a superposition of sincerity and satire. He’ll spend just as much time as me online defending the spec yet claim none of it is serious. It makes it convenient for him when he gets caught out on a demonstrably ridiculous/hypocritical statement (e.g. claiming SV was always meant to be melee despite explicitly stating the exact opposite in the past) because he can just pretend it was a joke and sweep it under the rug.
I’ve seen this type of person many times before, and I’ll stick to my original approach: if someone’s going to go for the “it’s just a prank, bro” defense and pretend whatever ridiculous argument they made was just a joke the entire time I’ll treat 100% of their content as a joke and not respond to it. Who knows: maybe he’s just parodying the average SV forum defender. In any case I won’t respond to someone who can’t decide which of their opinions are sincere or not.
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“Sv was pure ranged in vanilla! You could not play as hybrid!”
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That is fair. You don’t know me or my level of integrity.
I understand that you have a previous history with RSV. SV becoming melee, could be taken with the same offense if one the Rogues specs was made to use bows. Would make more sense for a DH to be a dual wielding crossbow user. Different topic, different discussion.
So you feel that your class and game for many years now has deteriorated. Got it.
I gathered, I answered you anyways in jest.
Is it really worth it though? Coming back to vehemently engage with others over a game the you feel is languishing? It’s clear that you can extrapolate and compose information. Wouldn’t those skills be better used elsewhere, rather than expending energy squabbling with people who wouldn’t dare say the things they have to you if they were 3 feet in front of you? It’s gotta be tiring, dude.
I hear your points. If I was in your shoes I would probably find myself in the same frustrating place. Alas, I am not. Yes, I feel the game has deteriorated and I have my own reasons. But tomorrow, I will still log onto my survival hunter and make the best of it. I’m a glutton for punishment though. Enhancment Vanilla to Cata, Riftblade in Rift, Gunslinger in SWTOR.
I think you answered my questions well. When I come here in the future I will understand what the root of your discourse is and have a better idea of your perspective. Thank you for taking the time to compose a reply.
As per Metroid’s own admission, albeit a debatable one, everything he does or says is meant to be a meme or just him, trolling.
Based on that, nothing he says should be considered nor is it worth the time to read, as he doesn’t mean it anyway.
As for the topic of RSV, and coming back to these forums(and other), the only way to even have a remote chance of getting changes done, is to keep on posting/talking about how you want it(RSV) back. If you don’t, it definitely will never do so.
There are plenty examples of this from the past, with other parts of the game.
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Damn you are terrified HF
Egotistical opinionated
Now you are stealing my sentences.
WoW is over because the most popular spec in history with quadrillions of players lost due to the low of a bow.
Its literally in the channel description but you were too stupid to read that despite stalking the ever living F*cc out of me.
No, I am defending the spec because its a fun deserving spec people should try and learn to play. My videos on the other hand are for luls since im not an elite pvper or mythic raider and I enjoy playing the game for fun. You couldnt figure that out even though I told you probably 200 times.
I didnt get caught on anything. I told you for months im making fun of you. You cant tell the difference because you are tone deaf.
It was always a joke with you. Anyone who takes a game too seriously especially over a part of the game they have zero experience with deserves to get slapped around. Its funny the moment I said I know how to get your discord regardless of you giving it up yourself or not now you wanna hide from me.
Except you did respond to it, for half a year… Across multiple websites… Even when the proof of it being satire was in front of you and you couldnt understand it due to what ever mental illness you have irl.
Pretty sure we already established awhile ago im just making fun of you. But the one time you dont want it to be all about you, you elect to ignore that little fun fact.
This is why I think you are on the short bus spectrum. Its obvious when its a joke or not. You cant tell the difference even though ITS IN THE GD CHANNEL DESCRIPTION. Stop acting like this its GD embarrassing man. Its okay if you are a little off in the mind.
Hes going through a midlife crises and chooses to larp. Thats his real problem.
Your probably just getting old. IMHO the game is fine. The very same things players complained about in retail praised in classic. This is the day and age where people spend more time buying new games monthly instead of those with replay value. We automatically want blizzard to unleash new content monthly even though most of us will never even finish what the release. Its always been funny to me most players who say there is nothing to do in this game havent seen mythic content, over 1800 in pvp or even have over 16000 achievement points. Not saying this is your problem of course.
No. Just with you and Bepples I have already said this. For the stupid youtube channel, yes. I was doing that long before you two got EMAD.
Missing the point entirely again.
- It tech never left as survival is mostly ranged anyways. Just not what you want it to do or seems you dont know how its played properly.
- Blizzard doesnt read this crap. They leave it for the larpers (People who post on alts or complain like children, sound familiar?)
ROFL You have no idea how true that is.
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I feel ya.
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The game was literally designed with hunters being able to use melee weapons. So each and every single time you lie and claim that hunters are only meant to use ranged weapons, we’ll just go ahead and link this for you to read and refresh your memory on those common weapon skills.
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But he didnt say that at any point?
I understand it can be really frustrating to try and argue with people who are unable to understand your arguments…
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Bro yes he has several times lol. His main argument is that hunters were designed to use and be all about ranged weapons so having a melee spec is against the nature of the class
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No, he said that melee as the primary focus of combat has never been a thing prior to Legion.
Before then, it was just a situational aspect that you wanted to avoid whenever possible. Melee as a part of the class, the last remnants, were completely removed in MoP because they served little to no purpose other than being stat sticks, and for the appearance.
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You’re both either lazy or lying. Anyone who’s posted here has seen, on numerous occasions, Bepples claim that hunters shouldn’t even be able to equip melee weapons. In fact, if I recall correctly, just a month or so ago he equated SV becoming melee as the epitome of horrible class design. So do you two care to lie some more, or can we move on?
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Thanks for proving this point.
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First off…
How does what you wrote there counter the argument that “melee as a primary focus of combat has never been a thing prior to Legion, for the class”?
Secondly
You mean this?
You do know that the basis for this argument isn’t how he personally dislikes melee, but the fact that they removed a spec from the class which was very much in line with the class fantasy as a whole, and replaced it with another which had a fundamental design that wasn’t in line with the class fantasy as a whole.
Specifically, they had to re-imagine the class fantasy and it’s description in order to fit the new spec into the class on a thematic level.
As per what Ion said himself, they made SV melee for the reason of making it more “unique”, and because they thought it would make it a lucrative choice for new players and more importantly, players that weren’t then-current hunters.
This is not at all the same thing as him saying “hunters shouldn’t be able to equip melee-weapons”. He(Bepples) was making a point against the idea that “change is always good when it comes to class design”, which it isn’t.
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