You are doing a fantastic job of playing victim now. Bravo.
This is a fairly competitive mmo. Asking people to make way for your personal build that you like as opposed to discussing the build that does the most output for end game content is weird. Your ego is astonishing.
Just looked at your logs for new raid. You love switching builds between bosses and seemingly enjoy that. Not everyone loves running multiple builds for optimal dps on case by case mobs. Youâre the 1%, I get it. The changes are great for you, you play the class and spec optimally and better than most.
What you need to remember⊠There are the other 99%, thatâs by far the playerbase that youâre not on here representing. Theyâre not on here trying to compute the launch velocity of a rocket, theyâre playing a game. As that implies, it should be fun. Fun implies subjectiveness. What feels fun to you seems to be high numbers. Thatâs fine, thatâs what works for you.
If your argument then becomes, if you donât like playing it optimally, play a different class. Iâd like to remind you, every class has a 1%, a group that plays the spec for numbers⊠It also has a 99% that doesnât. If you tell the entire playerbase that plays for fun to play other classes, itâll be a few hundred thousand players left playing. That may be what youâd like, but Iâd wager itâs not what Blizz prefers, they want subs and money⊠So they need to cater to all players, not just elites.
Itâs not playing the victim. You and Ghohnir are in here acting like the âeveryday wow playerâ when youâre talking about things. Itâs billionaires trying to explain poverty to the poor. Youâre not wrong, but you donât have the same perspective from up there.
I never said that.
The rest of your post assumes I said that and doubles down on it. I didnât.
The irony of this of course being you are not representing the 99%. Your representing 1. You. That is all. Iâm not a CE raider. I am, in fact, the 99% just like you are. All Iâm trying to get you to understand is mmos have meta builds. Development is 100% based around those builds. If you are playing outside of them that is totally fine. Awesome even. To expect a company like blizzard to develop a class based around your niche playstyle is going to always leave you wanting.
I get having to adjust your playstyle is not great but the way youâve attacked people doing testing and working hard to make our class/spec better isnât great either. Especially some of the people in this thread who I know for a fact are super nice people who go out of their way daily to help new players and old alike.
95-99% parses on every raid boss in DF continuing into TWW⊠but please, go onâŠ
Iâm not sure how you feel Iâve attacked people. Iâve stated my opinions, only to be told empirically that Iâm wrong across the board. I can only think back to one instance in a beta forum where I commented about someone posting on their alt character, only to be chewed out by many people. If you feel Iâve in some way attacked anyone personally, Iâm sorry for that.
Iâm not trying to say theyâre not trying to make the spec better, Iâm saying⊠subjectively to me, itâs less fun
Smoothing out the rotation around the way the spec is supposed to be played makes sense. Building a spec around what a guy on the forums likes makes absolutely zero sense. Itâs not possible. You seem to expect the later. Iâm not sure why.
Asking the entire survival hunter community to bow and bend to what you think is fun is kind of crazy man. Just saying. That isnât how this, or life, works.
Continuing the discussion from 20th Anniversary Update PTR Development Notes:
I stand corrected. I tried Surv on 11.0.5, it feels fine. I like that Covering Fire is now useful and hopefully Pack Leader is close enough to sentinel to make it viable as a good choice.
Theyâre already walking back some of the changes. Turns out it did indeed play like garbage.
We arenât done yet. Keep letting them know that we donât want a slow, boring playstyle because some players take more active abilities than they can handle.
Nothing was walked back? Butchery still has a 15 second cooldown and no charges. I think youâre quite confused
This seems a poor change to me in terms of gameplay (which, save perhaps for horribly content-incompatible profiles, is what our primary interest should always be on in a redesign).
The change reduces interaction and controlâespecially in ways was previously flavorful for the spec.
I donât want a hit-on-CD nuke AoE, especially where the enemies must live 12 seconds more to get its full value (due to the added DoT via new Merciless Blows).
I want Butchery, mostly as it was: bankable, burstable, interactive (even if that last bit was already mostly pruned with TWW pre-patch).
I like Survival feeling busy. If it would become nigh impossible to balance across AoE because of such limited time in which to fit additional rotational CDs (e.g., Butchery), leaving no time even to spend TotS stacks, or the like, I could understand trying to reduce that crunch.
But even then, that should, if anything, be through temporary reductions to the GCD and maayybbee the rare super-spender (dump 50 Focus and all TotS stacks at once or whatever, maybe as a new PL capstone synergetic with whatever, say, increased busyness it might offer over Sentinel).
That being said, most of the changes seem a net positive. I just dislike that, as usual, thereâs a fair bit of athematic steps to the side or outright back spoiling the barrel.
DoT was changed to 8 seconds btw
It still feels very busy imo. Current 11.0.2 SV has too many full GCDs in AoE so you canât realistically use FotE or SicâEm. Freeing things up like this opens up build options
Itâs just as interactive, imo. Instant full stacks of bloodseeker, give you an immediate full charge of WFB now (which feeds into itself with scattered prey).
And were charges given back? Was the CD?
The DoT replacing interaction with Raptor Strike/Mongoose Bite is an added annoyance; the core issue is still the lost frequency of available use and that Butchery itself is no longer predominantly a direct damage skill. Itâs now a âdonât need to actually spread Bloodseeker yourselfâ skill.
Which, again, Iâd prefer to have been done through the likes of temporary GCD reductions rather than CD increases.
If one is purposely going for a spec that gives them more of gameplay type A (not even a capacity that could otherwise cause balancing issues, but mere gameplay), the last thing they would normally want is to have that siphoned away from whatever means they had prior of achieving A.
Youâre describing a redundancy that, in turn, makes Kill Command and Exposed Flank feel worse. Those more involved options are now devalued by that free 53% uptime coming off your near-highest-priority action.
It just feels another instance of chipping away at SVâs unique systems? Who needs KC resets?
The only, imo, SV-esque part about that particular change is the indirect impact on Viperâs Venom.
This is the accurate and proper take.
For AoE scenarios itâs definitely going to lower the overall DPS on those types of encounters, the current setup of Butchery gives you a very consistent reduction in Wildfire Bomb CD for big AoE pulls.
For slower pack-to-pack pulls not as huge of a deal or even smaller cleave groups (ie. 3 or less) but I would expect overall output to decrease by around 15-20% with this change as itâs around 3-4 less bombs per pack easily.
I love how this is like the complete opposite of what the sv tcs have been saying in the hunter discord and that youâve pulled the 15-20% number out of yourâŠ
No? It doesnât need to be given back because this is addressing a frequent complaint that the AOE rotation is too busy.
Butchery has NEVER been a predominantly a direct damage skill. Or rather, it hasnât been since Hellcarver was a thing in 2016. Carve/Butchery has only exited as WFB CDR. Nothing more.
Even then Butchery is getting a 50% damage buff with this PTR changeâŠ
Right and youâre allowed to have your preferences but by and large thatâs not how the game operates.
Iâm going to be honest your third part here made absolutely no sense. You said this is removing interactivity and then you brought up a bunch of unrelated nothings.
How does this Butchery change make it less interactive?
For such an egregious claim youâd think you have some actual sims to show thatâŠ
I donât know how you keep missing this:
I like it being busy. I want it more busy. I would appreciate options remain in 10.0.5 to let it be at least as busy as in 10.0.2.
That is a personal preference.
100% of its own damage done in the hit itself, as opposed to so much of its damage coming from a DoT.
You know, the change that actually occurred.
At cost to almost 50% frequency, the ability thereby to cleave Raptor/Mongoose, and the ability to stack charges.
Your damage contributed by Butchery isnât likely to shift, but it will, for anyone who enjoys more busyness, control, or nuance, etc., likely feel worse.
I donât care about the âby and largeâ. Itâs a damned hero talent. And, as youâve accounted for in that qualifier, weâve already had variable GCDs in the game.
Devalued interaction with Scattered Prey, Wildfire Bomb, and Tip of the Spear, and now no interaction with Mongoose Fury, Viperâs Venom, Furious Assault, Contagious Reagents, and Spearhead, among others.
And then thereâs the net cost to other interactions outside of it, likewise devalued by the new Merciless Blows: spreading the Bloodseeker DoT from Kill Command itself and therefore its interactions with Exposed Flank.
What did they walk back, exactly? They just made some suggested changes to a few talents that was given in feedback earlier. Itâs still the same setup, they just adjusted the talents affected by the change.
Yeah, I figured someone would latch onto that hyperbolic statement.
The change is impactful is what I was trying to highlight, itâll directly impact the rotation being performed by SV hunters as there will indeed likely be 2-3 less bombs within a mob-pack opener.
Each Butchery press is effectively a free-bomb with all the other abilities you use after pressing it.
Instead itâs being re-worked to provide Tip of the Spear stacks, which isnât âhorribleâ because you do generally follow-up Butchery with Raptor Strike but what folks forget about is the talent âGrenade Jugglerâ which has a % chance to fire an Explosive Shot when you use Bombâs.
Less Bombâs less Explosive Shots, and Explosive Shot is typically your #1 damage dealing ability in an AoE scenario during the opener.
AoE encounters in M+ arenât typically lasting 240+ seconds like a simulator would run for⊠so you arenât seeing the immediate impact of this change.
huh? iâm confused what you mean here
after the recent PTR change where butchery gives 3 seconds CDR per target hit, new butcheryâs bomb CDR is now equal to three charges of old butchery. so there shouldnât be any loss of bombs overall. in fact, by the math iâm pretty sure itâll be more bombs in most cases
(TLDR: it takes 18 seconds to get three charges of old butchery, while new butchery has a 15 second CD. old butchery can briefly hit more total CDR than new butchery near the start of combat, then falls behind more and more over time)
before, bomb CDR from using butchery (starting from 3 stacks) could look like this:
*0:00.0 - 1 sec
*0:01.5 - 1 sec (total 2)
*0:03.0 - 1 sec (total 3)
*0:09.0 - 1 sec (total 4)
*0:18.0 - 1 sec (total 5)
*0:27.0 - 1 sec (total 6)
with new butchery, weâll be looking at:
*0:00.0 - 3 sec
*0:15.0 - 3 sec (total 6)
*0:30.0 - 3 sec (total 9)
old butchery pulls ahead at 9 seconds after the first butchery was cast, where it will have done a total of 4 sec CDR, whereas new butchery will have done 3 sec CDR
beyond that, new butchery pulls ahead. at 15 seconds, old butchery will still have done only 4 sec CDR, while new butchery will already be at 6 sec CDR. the longer combat goes on, the more the gap increases
(if iâm mistaken anywhere, please feel free to correct me. also iâm ignoring covering fire because. i donât feel like bothering with it)