This is a very small minded take. “Epeen” has nothing to do with it. We’re not looking to feel superior to anyone. We don’t even realize people like you exist outside the forums, as we don’t engage in the same content. Lower end content is simply boring to many of us because of how little effort it takes.
I want to play DPS, but even when I create a group with a key, no one joins.
Everyone is being picky about suffixes and key downgrades, which is especially serious in Mythic+.
So I had to switch to playing as a healer, but healing as a Dracthyr is too painful.
When I’m trying to keep track of people’s health, their positions, and the ground effects,
I often end up taking unnecessary damage, especially when I need to heal a distant ranged player or use empowered healing.
People are telling me to stop complaining, so I came up with a more constructive idea—a request that makes it easier for people to join groups without the fear of failure.
I didn’t say I wanted to lower the difficulty either.
It’s just a request for a more relaxed way to practice, without so much pressure.
But people didn’t accept my idea.
What else can I do? Maybe I’ll just have to leave.
I wouldn’t be too sure. 
Solo pushing score is a rough go.
Been a key-pusher for years and things definitely feel “off” now and I’m not a fan.
Feels overtuned. Crest gatekeeping at higher level despite increased difficulty. Not at all pug friendly.
I absolutely do not want this.
What I feel may be a good compromise, however, is some sort of currency for competing keys, scaling up higher with higher key level, that allows you to purchase safety on your key, increasing the cost of based on key level. Example:
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You out your +4 key into stone. You have the option to start it, or start it protected for 50 currency.
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Unprotected, rules are exactly as-is today
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While protected, the key level will not drop due to people leaving.
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While protected, the key will level will not drop if the key is completed within a time that could yield score, whether any players gained score from it. IE, if you complete the key within 40% overage, you don’t de-level the key
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If you go beyond that, you de-level the key. If you don’t do this, the system becomes exploitable, quickly.
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Make the key reroll NPC always appear. If you timed the key, you get a free reroll per the current rules. You always get an option to spend the currency to reroll, as long as you have currency.
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Award currency akin to crests, where timing a key is 1x value, and completing the key is instead 0.5x value
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This means that for every roughly 2.5 keys you time at a given level, you’ll be able to pay for a round of protection. For every 5 failed, the same deal.
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This also permits players who fell backwards the chance to continue to earn currency and bank for higher level protection
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This provides a mechanism for players to roll away bad keys if they have sufficient currency (say, 2x currency of the key level). This provides people targeting specific dungeons more agency for drops. This provides a mechanism to help people who PLAY M+ as content to target keys for score/practice more purposefully.
Quick numerical example:
Timing a 4 gives 20 points, but completing it with a failed timer is 10 points
When you start a +4 key, you can start normal or protected for 50 points (2.5 timed dungeons of currency)
When you finish that key, if you time it, everyone with a 4 or lower key gets a free reroll. Regardless of that, the NPC can reroll ANYONE’S key for 2x currency. If you wanted to roll your +4 once, it’s free, but the 2nd and beyond attempts costs 40 currency
This also gives players agency to protect losing progress for the occasional leaving issue, so long as the player was actually doing content at said level
If a player isn’t able to do 2 to 2.5 times keys at a given level, that player NEEDS to be in a lower key level and that needs to stay in effect; they cannot learn if they cannot get uptime to practice, and practicing at their limit is often more detrimental than not, hence why we have such a feature to begin with
Adjust values to taste, potentially add expensive “pick a boss to narrow loot table IF I get loot” feature, and you basically have addressed 70% of M+ complaints with a quick and dirty refactor
2 Likes
This is crazy. It goes down 1 level. ONE! chill out. The current m+ system is fine, the dungeons are overturned to crap but that’s a different topic.
You wanna talk about key punishment look up how keys worked in Legion and tell me this isn’t 1000% better.
In Legion an untimed/unfinished key became a ‘Depleted Key’. It stayed the same level. To reactivate the key you had to form a group to do the dungeon again AND time it! Also Depleted Keys gave nobody loot weather you timed it or not. No one will waste their time on key knowing they wont get anything out it.
At least right now you just kick the bad players and reform to level it up again. Punishment…don’t make me laugh. Lmao
Like all things in life, some things are challenges that just have to be overcome. What sexual gratification derived from pain and humiliation has to do with it is beyond me. I’d rather the game present a challenge rather than be the steam roll non-end game content is so I have something to work for. If they make it so easy I no longer have to try it’ll be time to move on from the game.
Youre too busy living in the past . Legion was what , 3 expansions ago ? I could tell you about the vanilla and tbc days but i wont because you wouldnt care. The same way we dont care about legion stuff .
I love how m+ players love to act like they’re the elite because they’re “pushing” and all that, but at the end of the day they’re just the biggest crybabies in the entire playerbase.
They cannot be infinitely run. You can only do so many runs. It takes ~30mins to finish a key, if you’re failing keys then we can assume that average is higher, potentially much higher.
If you pass your key it changes to something else. So you can no longer “spam” that dungeon without finding another key that takes more time to both find and create a group for.
The problem is you could get a carry in a key, much much higher then you’re capable of and if it didn’t deplete you could slowly repeat it 1 or 4 or 8 times to fill out the vault, I don’t think that’s a scenario we want to see in m+.
I do think blizz amped up the difficulty between keys too much, but the deplete key is there for the health of the system more so then to punish the player
You can spam them for infinite loot back to back, and target the drop you want by doing the same dungeon You can’t do the same with raids. You assume its the same person’s key but its not. I have applied and gotten into the same dungeon back to back in the past trying to farm a specific item.
I didn’t assume. I covered that scenario.
“Infinite” is a gross exaggeration. How many runs would you do in the day?
Also the topic was about a key depletion. if you can spam keys already with depleting keys then why change rewards with no change in behaviour with keys not depleting?
I’ve done up to 15 runs a day in the past. Compared to raiding, thats basically infinite x7 days a week for BIS whereas a raid boss is locked at once per week(assuming your targeting heroic and not normal and are not a mythic raider).
15 runs is ~4 1/2 hours of runs if you don’t have bad runs. Plus whatever time it takes between runs to form up, say 10mins on average. Id comfortably put that at 6 1/2 hours of wow MINIMUM.
Im not going to calculate m+ drop chances for a specific item but historically its woefully bad. Pretty much a week of 15 runs a day will not guarantee a target item will drop.
We’re getting off topic but i doubt changing key depletion would impact this behaviour. Especially for ppl as dedicated as yourself
There’s no reason to push when progression doesn’t exist. It doesn’t count when players are told to wait for their weekly login lootbox instead of playing the game.
If blizz wants to turn m+ into punishing esports, they have to put myth track into dungeon chests. Treating gear like how mobile games do it makes it worthless and fake.
1 Like
Run with as guild, eventually they easy sweep raids. Pugging is torture.
No, raiding is dead content.
Spending countless hours each week babysitting people to not spoil your timegate lockout is not worth it, irregardless of how good the rewards are.
Blizzard isn’t going to remove raid lockouts so raiding will stay dead. The company has too much obsession with being a control freak with taking away player agency and proper progression, so they put people in loot timeout and kill entire game modes.
Lol you can take the win but can’t endure the loss ?
At one point, my key went from 11 to 8, but I pushed it back to 12.
It’s just a game after all, and if you can’t push your key higher then see it as your current limit.
Unless your guild is a CE guild, pugs > guild. Mediocre guildmates are typical dead weights. You can’t kick them if they peform badly, you can’t pick a strong comp with high ilvl/rio players because your limited pool of guildmates.
So if not guilds, where are the mediocre to lesser skilled players supposed to go to play and learn?
If I ever built up the confidence to try M+ I would seek a guild or community. I’m not a great player and someone like me needs a steady group that won’t rage over mistakes, and will continue to play together, hopefully learning and growing.
People create a lot of weird justifications for their lack of skill and/or anxiety. Its supposed to be a challenge, if thats personally stressing you out so much go get your welfare loot from delves or play a different game.
2 Likes