Dude, there’s a good chance I’ve been a Hunter longer than you’ve been playing.
Not if they are baseline choices for most MM.
Anyway I see this discussion as pointless. Just becasue Surv is too hard to play or because 2 guys don’t like it they want it to be removed.
And that could be turned around and you be told if you like melee so much, go play one of the many other melee specs in the game.
Just saying.
This is really, at least IMO, the crux of the issue, the fact they took away a spec a set of players enjoyed and replaced it with something that was by their own admission a niche spec.
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Not entirely sure why you would include this. It’s not particularly relevant to your argument of what constitutes a “rework” or not. Whether players pick those talents or not, it has no relevance to the act of changing them into something else/replacing them, talking work and the resources required. And either way, they aren’t baseline in any way. Both are optional talent picks.
For RSV, they were very much baseline.
Probably should remind you of earlier:
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I support my hunter brothers who want to play a melee spec. I do think they should give them dual wield as I think it seems more fitting.
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Wrong.
Also wrong.
Again, wrong.
The people who want the old ranged surv back don’t want the melee version to be removed. We want a fourth spec so we can have both specs and no one has to lose out.
Then leave and don’t reply/post in this thread anymore?
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You and Bepples both are vanilla players who have been playing Hunters since vanilla.
Just saying, is all. 
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since you bring up this twice, literally nobody cares if SV is complex or hard to play, it is still less useful in a pve group than most other melee or a ranged hunter.
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Alrighty.
I am playing one of the many melee classes in the game. Survival Hunter.
Are there other melee classes with pets that I’m not aware of?
One could say, if you like using a ranged weapon, there are two Hunter specs just for you.
What’s wrong with them?
Unholy DK would like a word with you.
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You already had Unholy DK. Also, how many melee specs does this game have currently. How many ranged weapon specs do we have. How melee specs have been added to the game since after Vanilla. How many ranged weapon specs have been added since after Vanilla. Point is, hunters who enjoyed RSV lost their spec, and melee players gained 2 melee DPS specs in Legion, MSV and Havoc DH. So really who has lost out more. I say bring back RSV as a 4th spec still, but again, people like you kind of make me wish Blizz would do to you what they did to all the RSV players, but that would just create more animosity and also require them to admit it was a bad idea.
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I’d like to see Survival get a tanking option, there is a precedent. Druids get Bear and Feral. Might find a bunch of tanks available that never were before… if they could make it fun and viable.
They wouldn’t have to remove it. They could just add a couple talents that turn it back into melee.
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My issue with current survival is that it feels more BM than what they should go for. I really miss old Survival Hunter, was probably the best hunter spec when it got fleshed out in WotLK.
Current survival doesn’t utilize traps / grenades nearly as much as I think it should and I really do not like how often you use Kill Command.
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You can’t do that as Survival yet here you are defending it.
… you seriously need to stop talking past people. It’s been told to you endlessly that the change made a negligible difference in the skill cap of the class.
Hunters still have to kite and escape melee range regardless of if their ranged abilities have a minimum range. Hunters played more or less the same in 4.3 Cataclysm and 5.0 MoP when the melee weapon was removed.
All the flavour and strength of the class was in the ranged weapon. We did not need a melee weapon for anything. You only want a melee weapon as you’re clearly a melee player trying to impose your own preferences on the Hunter class. You should instead stick to a melee class such as the one you’re posting from. I’m also curious how you think removing the melee weapon from Hunters was “losing flavour” but removing the ranged weapon from Survival was a good thing. Talk about double standards.
If Hunters are so easy maybe you should post from your Hunter and show us what you’ve accomplished.
This whole paragraph starting here totally ignores the part of my post you quoted. You’re again talking past me with some canned BS. Read the post before typing.
The point was that “Survival hasn’t been changed as much as other specs” is bogus. The BFA rework alone was more ground-up change in one expansion than most specs ever see in multiple expansions.
Yes we’ve already established that your preferences in class design are terrible and you should never be listened to. It’s a good thing we are moving back towards a class-oriented design. Specialisations build on the foundation that is the class. That’s their entire purpose. Trying to make them separate independent micro-classes in Legion was a terrible idea that turned out as badly as one could expect.
No, Kill Command does not exist in SV just for Torghast. Marksmanship doesn’t have Kill Command so evidently that’s not the reason, and it was added to SV in BFA long before Torghast was a thing.
No, it shouldn’t. Exotic pets are a major unique selling point of BM. It would be utterly unfair to also give them to SV, especially since SV has already taken quite a bit from BM. It even has Spirit Bond as its mastery which was a BM thing beforehand.
I’m not seeing any argument as to why exotic pets should be available to SV other than your personal dislike of BM, and then we’re just back to your toxic personal preferences, aren’t we?
… have you considered that the overwhelming majority of Hunters prefer BM to SV? Again, stop imposing your personal preferences on the class when they’re clearly so misaligned. You’re a melee player. Stick to melee classes.
Exotic pets shall forever remain BM-exclusive.
… skipping a bunch of your droning on about your personal preferences and experiences that I don’t care about…
You’re talking paszt me again without reading the post so I’ll ignore most of this, not that there’s any actual argument here but rather you droning on about your contemptible personal preferences again. Tanking is unworkable as a Hunter. There’s no way to do it without betraying the class identity or implementing something that would work terribly no matter how it would be implemented.
I love the lack of self-awareness here. Literally begged them to remove someone elses spec but calls foul when people do it to their spec.
Just to join in on the dogpile: no, MM and old SV did not play almost identically. And even if they did making one of them melee is a dumb solution. Warlocks and Mages are all ranged. Rogues are all melee. Evidently specs in a class can be sufficiently different without needing an awkward, problematic ranged/melee split. Now SV is “unique” in that it’s uniquely handicapped within an otherwise ranged class.
Actually there is a Marksmanship in the top 100, but yes it’s true that every other Hunter in the top 100 is SV. I fully expect SV to be better than the other Hunter specs in 2v2, although it’s worth noting that far less competitive PvPers engage in 2v2 because most of the focus is in 3v3. For example, the top hunter in 3v3 is BM and he doesn’t play 2v2 at all outside of a single play session where he got to 2.8k and stopped. My contention is that a) it isn’t the top spec in the game as you played even if we hyper-focus on top 100 in 2v2 and b) most Hunters stick to BM anyway.
In BFA SV was by far the best in all rated PvP: 2v2, 3v3, and RBG. And most Hunters across the board played SV. Too bad the Hunter population in rated PvP was quite low then because most Hunters just opted out of rated PvP entirely rather than playing SV 
Well, yeah. Not only is there a sub rogue above the SV Hunters, but most of the top SV Hunters on the leaderboard are actually 2 people on various alts. If Akro powergamed arenas all day on 6 alts you would have 6 sub rogues above the SV Hunters. And even with all the SV alts there are far more sub rogues throuhgout the top 100.
We can agonise over whether Sub rogues or SV Hunters are better, but let’s get some perspective: why are you hyper-fixating on 2v2 arena? You’re not only ignoring other areas of the game, you’re ignoring most of rated PvP as well. Why does SV’s strength in 2v2 justify SV being melee in your mind? Do you think SV’s performance in PvP is a necessary result of being melee? Because the last time SV was ranged in WoD it had far more representation in rated PvP and was in fact one of the strongest specs in all areas, despite the 6.2 gutting of Serpent Sting that ended ranged SV in PvE.
If SV is so entertaining where are all the damn players? I keep hearing endless droning and parroting from SV Hunters that it’s the best thing since sliced bread with top-tier performance and unbelievably fun gameplay yet when push comes to shove hardly anyone ever turns up to play it. You understand that pins the blame even more on the melee rework, right? If SV had the same performance and gameplay (as in ability priority and interactions) as it did now but were ranged instead do you think it would be just as unplayed?
Not once in your posts here have you given a positive, well-constructed argument as to why SV should remain melee. You’re just endlessly bragging about its PvP performance from one particular area of the game.
It’s mostly ranged? Great! It shouldn’t be much of a problem to make it completely ranged, then, if it’s most of the way there.
It was already explained to you that MM has very little from ranged SV and it would be trivial to address that. Don’t talk past me like Terranox. I’ll call you out on that every time.
Show us your Hunter, then. Because I’ve been playing since January of 2005.
Yes: unholy death knight.
We used to have 3, and that provided good exploration into ranged weapon archetypes. Sacrificing 1/3 of all the ranged weapon representation in the game just to add a 13th melee spec, when ever DPS spec they’ve added to the game post-launch has been melee including a new hero class in the very same expansion as SV melee, never made sense. The class and the game as a whole would be a lot better off if SV were ranged again.
No. Tanking is an awful idea from the class and there is no precedent in turning a DPS spec to a tanking spec. Just because the melee SV experiment failed doesn’t mean they should jump to the next doomed-to-fail experiment. SV should be a ranged DPS.
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Yeah. They removed my favorite spec (Survival post-WotLK until Legion) and replaced it with a melee spec. I’m not advocating for them to remove your favorite spec–I want them to give me my favorite spec back. They can give hunters a 4th spec slot if they insist on keeping melee survival, but I don’t love being the only physical ranged class in the game and only having two ranged spec options.
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All I hear from you is gaslighting and telling me that my opinion shouldn’t be listened to or my opinions don’t matter. Which is enough for me to exit replying to your messages. I hope the devs keep and work on Melee SV. Improvements are always appreciated. The spec is fun, you can’t change my mind on that and I appreciate having it currently in the game. As someone who loved the mixed melee I appreciate SV now. Hope the devs continue to improve the spec and fix the kinks.
I enjoy having a melee spec for hunter.
Every spec should have a ranged and melee option where it makes sense.
I play my Unholy DK as a pseudo melee caster (necromancer basically).