Is MCING A Player Off A High Place During A Duel Considered Griefing?

[Jakensama-skyfury]

@Vysarjí-zuljin

Then my first point is still relevant, accept the duel accept the risk - end of story. Doesn’t matter if it’s hardcode, retail, etc.

The people who write the rules disagree with you - end of story.

[Goodglinda-defias-pillager]

@Jakensama-skyfury

The people who write the rules disagree with you -

That would indicate they would be enforcing the rule in this case, which we all know they won’t.

[Jakensama-skyfury]

@Goodglinda-defias-pillager

That would indicate they would be enforcing the rule in this case, which we all know they won’t.

True, but the question wasn’t will he be punished, it was is it considered griefing. By blizzard’s rules it unambiguously is. In reality he’ll probably get away with it like most of the people who buy gold in classic.

[Goodglinda-defias-pillager]

@Jakensama-skyfury

By blizzard’s rules it unambiguously is.

It really isn’t unambiguous though.

[Jakensama-skyfury]

It really is though. Intentionally MCing someone to death during a non Makgora duel is griefing by Blizzard’s own words.

I’m sure some morons will try to twist into knots pretending it wasn’t intentional in the same way that they were pretending TinyViolin pulled the boss to the wrong corner, but everyone knows it is. The OP post doesn’t even pretend it was an accident.

[Goodglinda-defias-pillager]

@Jakensama-skyfury

Intentionally

Go ahead and prove intent.

[Jakensama-skyfury]

@Goodglinda-defias-pillager

Go ahead and prove intent.

You’re right, people accidentally mind control people off cliffs all the time. Just like TinyViolin accidentally went to the wrong corner. We all believe that too, sport.

[Belemidge-argent-dawn]

I wouldn’t think so… If you’re in a dual, anything goes I imagine…

[Morvenn-whitemane]

It’s not griefing if it’s hilarious. If someone is dumb enough to duel you near a cliff they deserve what happens.

[Vysarjí-zuljin]

@Zenetta-proudmoore

malicious player killing outside of consensual PvP will not be tolerated on Hardcore realms.

Accepting the duel is giving consent. Whatever the outcome of the duel are the consequences. Unfortunately the player didn’t use common sense and caught perma death as a result. Seems more like a case of wanting to make a bad decision, accept zero consequences for it, then whinge about it on forums.

Also the rules are ambiguous around this topic because you cannot prove intent vs for example a lock dropping an infernal in trade district.

[Jakensama-skyfury]

@Vysarjí-zuljin

Accepting the duel is giving consent. Whatever the outcome of the duel are the consequences. Unfortunately the player didn’t use common sense and caught perma death as a result. Seems more like a case of wanting to make a bad decision, accept zero consequences for it, then whinge about it on forums.

Also the rules are ambiguous around this topic because you cannot prove intent vs for example a lock dropping an infernal in trade district.

The rules are not ambiguous, they are perfectly clear. Enforcement might be questionable, but intentionally MCing a person in a non Mak’Gora duel is objectively griefing by their own wording. You do not “consent” to death in a non fatal duel. There is no plausible explanation for “oh no the other guy jumped off that cliff while I was in control of his character.” Plus the OP didn’t even phrase it as unambiguous, he asked if it was griefing. It is. Will he get in trouble for it? Unlikely.

Also, how is it a case of someone “whinging about it on forums” when the victim is not even participating in the conversation, it was the ostensible griefer (who was “asking for a friend”) who initiated it.

[Zenetta-proudmoore (Zenetta)]

@Eilis-kelthuzad

No, that’s what you’ve interpreted it to mean.

It’s not an ambiguous statement they were very clear.

@Eilis-kelthuzad

I would argue that a duel, by definition, is PvP

Your argument is simply factually wrong. They state 3 specific things, duel to the death, PvP flagging and war games. PvP flagging is a specific defined game mechanic in which you flag for PvP by typing /pvp to be able to attack members of the opposite faction. Your argument holds zero weight because normal dueling is not PvP flagging by definition.

@Eilis-kelthuzad

Quit assuming your interpretation of the rules is the only valid one.

Again, it is not an ambiguous statement open to interpretation. They were VERY CLEAR that intentionally killing another player outside of those very 3 limited and very specific circumstances is against their policy for the mode.

@Goodglinda-defias-pillager

It really isn’t unambiguous though.

As far as Blizzard goes, it’s one of the most unambiguous policies they’ve ever stated. They stated it as clearly as it could be stated. There are 3 specific exceptions to when you can kill someone in HC intentionally and a normal duel is very clearly not one of them.

[Horace-remulos]

@Zenetta-proudmoore

to when you can kill someone in HC intentionally

Highlighting for emphasis, before somebody asks ‘but what if I duel someone and they coincidentally die when on low HP’?

[Eilis-kelthuzad]

@Zenetta-proudmoore

Your argument is simply factually wrong. They state 3 specific things, duel to the death, PvP flagging and war games. PvP flagging is a specific defined game mechanic in which you flag for PvP by typing /pvp to be able to attack members of the opposite faction. Your argument holds zero weight because normal dueling is not PvP flagging by definition.

No it’s not, it’s using the same article you are. So unless that’s not a good source; my argument is just fine. Your interpreting what Blizz says differently than others does not make them inherently wrong.

" and malicious player killing outside of consensual PvP will not be tolerated on Hardcore realms"

Is from that same article. Please explain how a duel isn’t consensual PvP.

Just because it goes on to give some specifics does not mean that list is all encompassing or that you can decide what it means and everyone else has to live by it.

If you die to a duel and want to report them, go for it; Blizzard will decide if the other person did anything wrong or not.

But if you choose to duel and end up dead on HC; you shouldn’t come crying to the forums about how unfair it is when all you had to do was say no in the first place.

[Jakensama-skyfury]

@Eilis-kelthuzad

But if you choose to duel and end up dead on HC; you shouldn’t come crying to the forums about how unfair it is when all you had to do was say no in the first place.

That thing that literally no one has done.

[Kallenia-moon-guard]

but hear me out. what if the person’s eyesight is bad and they can’t really tell field of depth?

[Horace-remulos]

@Eilis-kelthuzad

Is from that same article. Please explain how a duel isn’t consensual PvP.

Expressio unius est exclusio alterius.

A legal principle meaning the expression of one thing is to the exclusion of the other.

We can reasonably infer that the express mention of the three types of legitimate PvP on HC realms are to the exclusion of all others.

[Goodglinda-defias-pillager]

@Jakensama-skyfury

people accidentally mind control people off cliffs all the time

Prove that it wasn’t an accident.

[Zenetta-proudmoore (Zenetta)]

This entire argument is likely pointless since I doubt this even will come up much but…

@Eilis-kelthuzad

No it’s not, it’s using the same article you are.

No, you are not using the article as it is written, you’re trying to take pieces of it and say “this is ambiguous” when it literally unambiguously states in part of the same article there are only 3 exceptions to where you can intentionally kill another player and a normal duel is not one of them.

[Dawnhuntress-frostmourne]

It’s 100% griefing. The priest deliberately mc’d the other player off the cliff, knowing the other player would die. They basically started the duel with the intention to kill said player. It’s not a friendly duel when one player has sinister motives.