A large part of the appeal of LFR is that there are NO leaders. No tyrant to dictate things.
1 Like
Having a leader guide the raid isnât tantamount to having a tyrant. Why is this the go to assumption?
I raid with a guild and itâs never been tyrannical. In fact, itâs only been a positive experience to have someone who knows whats going on and who can provide the raid with encouragement and advice on how to navigate the challenges. Also, there needs to be a central voice that provides direction. All collaborative efforts benefit by this dynamic. Itâs what makes playing as a member of a team possible. The alternative, anarchy, doesnât really succeed well at these kinds of challenges, where all members of to work together in a coordinated fashion. Thatâs partly the reason why LFR/LFD are so incredibly easy as far as challenging game play goes and why so many PUGs tend to fail at the harder content.
At the very least tanking and healing, as well as the proverbial ânot standing in the fire because you are too busy DPSingâ, should be required for success. Failing at these core components should result in a wipe, even at the LFD/LFR level. Also, the idea of failure being a core component of the process should be better highlighted such that these players learn that it is a necessary part of the process of learning how to overcome the challenge.
As it currently stands, players in LFD/LFR have to work really hard to fail. By not failing, players donât learn how it is they have made a mistake. Without that consequence, there is no meaningful lessons to be learned to bring forward to the next level of challenge.
1 Like
Personally I mark that post as the beginning of the decline of WoW. It showed just how out of touch the dev team was that they werenât listening to the players.
Unfortunately I donât think thatâs changed at all. If anything theyâve doubled down on it since WoD by and large, only giving in when the screams are loud enough that they canât ignore. But it seems almost like they are trying to kill the game.
Wrath did well not because it was hard, but because it was fun. Cata did poorly because it was hard to the point of stupid. That bad taste lingers even to this day in the toxicity that lurks in the playerbase (although it was definitely there before cata, in the form of content gating).
LFD and LFR were added intentionally to do two things: Break the toxicity of select groups gating content for the rest of their servers, and make raid content actually fiscally viable by increasing participation rates respectfully.
What the devs didnât anticipate and still have refused to fix is the fact that no single realm can sustain LFD/LFR on its own. That inability due to server size limitations really hurts the game and the community.
1 Like
The current iteration of covenants seem to line up with this too.
1 Like
And I have never had anything but the opposite experience.
2 Likes
I think Blizzard should join the modern MMO market and offer all raid and dungeon difficulties on the LFR/LFD. Almost all other current MMOâs offer this.
Not gonna lie, itâd be worth it to join just to see the chat in any of the hard stuff through LFD/LFR
Maybe thatâs because you are seeking a raid guild rather than a guild of friends and acquaintances with which you play a game for the fun of all involved.
1 Like
While you are correct in assuming it would be the proverbial âsh!t showâ, for those of us who remember those times, this was true of trying to PUG content in previous expansions before LFD/LFR too. At least now you donât have to stand in Stormwind/Orgrimar yelling into chat for 2-3 hours building the raid only to have half the raid leave after the first wipe on the first boss.
Oh yes, the current system is much better, no disputing that.
I used to care when the loot was decent for casual players, now its pretty worthless. They have gutted the system to the point where it is not worth even queuing anymore.
Does that mean it will have the effect hardcores want and I am suddenly going to start forming normal raids? Hell no, I donât have time for that. Its the main reason we LFR to begin with.
Hardcore players really gain nothing out of this, in fact it will be worse for them as I foresee the amount of raids getting smaller now as only a small portion of the player base raids to begin with.
1 Like
The removal of LFD and LFR would cement me never buying another blizzard product again. 
They are already on shakey grounds as it is.
1 Like
LFR and LFD destroyed the barriers that forced people to make friends and thus made WoW a less social game. Most the friends I have in WoW I made before dungeon finder. Itâs fracked.
I think thatâs more a result of getting away from individual servers. LFD/LFR would be fine for socializing if you ever saw the same person more than once
1 Like
Its not going to have the effect you think it will, especially for raiding.
Dungeons I can see. But honestly most of us are just going to join randoms dungeons anyway. Its what I have been doing since classic at least. Was I any more friendly to those people over the LFD system now? Not at all. Its just more convenient now. But if you insist on removing it as an experiment be my guest, I am not suddenly going to have more time to develop relationships in a videogame.
People have this weird idea that lfr and lfd made people suddenly become unsociable, when the real reason is most of us use those avenues as we donât have time to join guilds and organize raids/events.
It really is that simple. Hardcore players for some reason want to shoot themselves in the foot. Do it for all I care. LFR is garbage now thanks to the intentional gutting of the system, and getting a group of randoms for dungeons I donât know will just take longer to form.
Its not going to make me suddenly want to play like you, sorry. If I didnât have a life sure, I agree that is the best way to experience the game (it always has been by the way) is to form friendships and do harder content and get better rewards. But most of us who grew up with the game have lives now.
If Blizzard really wants casual end game to be world quests fine by me. There is enough other things for me to do in game now where I donât even have to do raids or dungeons. Mythic + and terrible LFR loot has basically alienated me from that game play already.
I will just do alts and tradeskills.
Classicâs a great example of this.
With all the tanks charging people money / demanding priority on items to tank dungeons, and people refusing to take people along that havenât done dungeons beforeâŚ
And waiting literally hours to find a tank/ healer for some dungeons.
Wonderful and lots of âComraderyâ and âFriend makingâ over there. 
2 Likes
Sure, itâs a bunch of different issues.
The lack of server communities, removing the need for social networks through group finder tools, etc.
Even flooding the game with gear paired with titan/corruption/socket procs ruined socialization. In older content, you had 1 lock out and you barely got any gear so you had to negotiate who got what loot when. The process of determining prio built trust and friendships (and drama too).
I could easily play retail without communicating at all. Hell, talking during M+ is discouraged lol. You make sure you have your IO updated, go in, follow the route, leave without typing a single thing.
Itâs funny because Iâve made dozens of friends in Classic over a few months after not making new friends in retail over a few years.
And theres zero doubt in my mind that LFR and LFD have literally nothing to do with that.
Iâve made friends equally as well in Classic and in Retail.
Only difference, is people are more forced to put up with you in classic, so if you can make friends in one, but not the other, sounds more like a you issue.
1 Like