Is LFR heading for the chopping block?

[Leishaan-azjolnerub (Leishaan)]

@Burkkins-moon-guard

So long as LFR doesn’t provide any meaningful rewards, only argument against it is that lazy people willing to put in 0 effort get to experience whole raid.

Except it doesn’t. Even Heroic raiders currently do not get to experience a whole raid. That is reserved for the Mythic level of raiding now, and has been for some years now. Even Heroic raiders get to experience aspects that Normal Raiders do not. So saying that LFR players get to experience a whole raid is a bit much.

@Diro-stonemaul

it’s that these players are not provided with a reasonable approximation of what these experience are at a higher level.

Why should that matter?

@Diro-stonemaul

LFD/LFR should be an experience that motivates players to seek out the greater challenges that an organized group of players and/or guilds can provide for them.

Why should it? Either people are going to want to be sociable, so seek out those sociable aspects of the game, which does include Raiding, or they don’t. Anyone who doesn’t realize that Raiding beyond the random queue requires socialization is either incredibly ignorant or in self-denial.

@Diro-stonemaul

At the very least tanking and healing, as well as the proverbial “not standing in the fire because you are too busy DPSing”, should be required for success.

Part of the problem with the last is that there are times where one SHOULD “stand in the fire”, either because of a raid buff or a soak to avoid raid damage. The what needs to be done with Maut, Vexiona, and Ra-den who each have different standards on “standing in the fire”. Each Raid fight changes the standards on which this is based, so it still requires some education.

There are still people who die from drowning in the Eternal Palace while waiting to face the Blackwater Behemoth, no matter how often they are told to grab the membrane and the location is marked.

In many cases, these failures in LFR aren’t things that are easy to fail at, but because it is because of a subversion of expectations. I’ve had no problems with Shad’har, which is a relatively basic tank & spank, versus Drest’agath where one needs to “stand in a fire” in order for a player’s damage to have any reasonable affect, or Maut where there is a period where one has to be VERY careful about their damage output as well as “stand in the fire” to avoid a mechanic.

@Ronina-pagle

LFR and LFD destroyed the barriers that forced people to make friends and thus made WoW a less social game. Most the friends I have in WoW I made before dungeon finder. It’s fracked.

Whereas most of the friends I had in WoW came from real life. There is a current exception, but that’s after 14 years, and those relationships came from another MMORPG.

@Grellos-emerald-dream

LFR is garbage now thanks to the intentional gutting of the system, and getting a group of randoms for dungeons I don’t know will just take longer to form.

I don’t know. It certainly helps me know what NOT to do in an encounter more often than it helps me learn what to do!

@Diro-stonemaul

You’re going about it all backwards. You don’t make friends to do content. You do content with friends. Sure, you might meet those people online and even in game due to some shared interest but joining a guild simply because you want to raid with them doesn’t now mean you are “making friends”.

Interesting, because that is actually the assertion that Nyaria was arguing against.

@Margirita-perenolde

LFR never has a dependable leader,

“Never” is a very absolute term. I’ve had a few LFR runs with people who checked to make sure people knew the mechanics before pulling. Heck, I’ve done that myself when I started tanking for it.

Now whether anyone LISTENED to that advice, is a different story. As I said, some people will still not get the membrane, stand in the wrong fire, avoid the right fire, etc.

[Shamrond-lightbringer]

It’s the same thing. Eliminate one difficulty, and then it doesn’t matter whether you want rename Mythic to Heroic or rename LFR to Normal. Either way, four difficulties is way too many.

[Shamrond-lightbringer]

@Burkkins-moon-guard

Call it what you want, but there’s people around here who claim not to have time, and yet play 10 hours a day doing world quests and whatnot content, now willing to spare any time to find a guild or a group to do a raid with, but wanting to see the raids and get best loot they can get their hands on.

There’s a difference between three hours a night rife with interruptions on an irregular schedule and solid three hour windows on a consistent schedule. The latter is what “real” raiding requires.

[Terranox-stonemaul (Terranox)]

If they took lfr out then I’m probably not raiding in the expansion at all… unless I join a raiding guild or something.

[Diro-stonemaul (Diro)]

@Leishaan-azjolnerub

Part of the problem with the last is that there are times where one SHOULD “stand in the fire”, either because of a raid buff or a soak to avoid raid damage. The what needs to be done with Maut, Vexiona, and Ra-den who each have different standards on “standing in the fire”. Each Raid fight changes the standards on which this is based, so it still requires some education.

don’t take what I said literally. it’s why i put it in quotes. What i mean is that players need to learn the mechanics of the fight and “where to stand” is a basic part of that challenge. DPS shouldn’t just be balls to the walls nukem till they melt. They need to know how to their part just as much as tanks and healers do. and their part isn’t just nuking the site from orbit.

[Shamrond-lightbringer]

Agreed. Classic is a great glimpse into a world without LFD/LFR:

@Wylkanth-frostwolf

This is ridiculous.

I been spamming LookingForGroup for the past 2 days as a Tank trying to get an RFK group and it’s not happening.

@Rèvy-korgath

Leveling experience is a nightmare at this point (same as vanilla) no one wants to level the honest way. They just want to paid a mage and AOE grind them to 60 yet there are some of us who still want to do the dungeons without the carries or have returned to the game after a break and it just feels like a solo experience.

@Sayqueso-chogall

I also thought that LFD was a type of “game breaker”, I experienced the difference as a new player to the World of Azeroth.

The main problem with the removal of LFD is that new players will not be able to do those dungeons without having to wait close to an hour. Additionally, most new players won’t play the “leader” until they have experienced enough of the World of Azeroth.

Let us also not forget how fun it can be to find a group through LFD to que together and continue to farm exp, not just one instance but multiple instances.

@Cops-whitemane

I have tried to get a group going for Uldaman for a week from levels 42-45. Nobody wanted to run it. Closest I came was forming a group that just needed one more DPS and a tank. Two hours later, no tank, no group.

Levels 45-47 I’ve tried getting a ZF group going for a week. Nobody wants me in their group (47 mage). I have both tried to find groups and form groups, to no avail. I’m on a big server, too; Whitemane.

What I have seen, however, is constant “WTB ULD run,” “WTB SM RUNS,” “WTB MARA RUNS” and “WTB ZF ZOMBIES RUNS.”

@Seermagic-ghostlands

This is ridiculous. You can’t really find pug groups for anything anymore.

The two arguments against it hold no weight. First one is “find a leveling guild”. If that’s the answer, then how is a dungeon finder gonna effect you in a negative way?

The other, the elephant in the room. “It will destroy the social part of wow”. Addons did way more damage to that than dungeon finder ever will.

[Jarlàth-gnomeregan]

Removing LFR/LFD will make me walk away. My guild is basically dead. I get kicked from PUGs by saying I have a vision disability and need to go a bit slower. I haven’t done any raids this xpac because I don’t give two sh*ts about the storyline.

That said, I really like the idea of a NPC raid leader for LFR. Or lifting it back up to what it was in MoP. That’s when I liked doing raiding and tried to get into higher groups (not this toon). WoD had the same problem of the storyline sucked but LFR was okay. Legion was good again. So… yeah. Ramble of make it like MoP again.

[Leishaan-azjolnerub (Leishaan)]

@Diro-stonemaul

don’t take what I said literally. it’s why i put it in quotes. What i mean is that players need to learn the mechanics of the fight and “where to stand” is a basic part of that challenge. DPS shouldn’t just be balls to the walls nukem till they melt. They need to know how to their part just as much as tanks and healers do. and their part isn’t just nuking the site from orbit.

And my point is that the mechanics involved in raids these days just isn’t as easy to define as it used to be way back in the day. There is a lot of subversion of expectations, and people can forget, especially if they are running through different types of encounters on a regular basis.

[Muscles-dentarg]

You wish. Think you took Ion’s comments completely out of context to suit this post.

[Timbaeslice-frostmourne]

Misquoting Ion is the best thing though.

That’s why meaningful choice has been the hottest phrase of 2020.

[Dexterworgen-nordrassil]

Actually I don’t wish, If you read just a few lines down you will see I actually like LFR.

[Muscles-dentarg]

Wishful thinking veiled as speculation. I stand by what I said.

[Muscles-dentarg]

Either way you are entitled to think whatever you want. Personally, my feelings are mixed on LfG. On one hand I feel it’s a necessary evil, on the other it ruined the community and the need to come together and be accountable on your server. However, I feel that’s more CRZ’s fault not LfG.

[Dexterworgen-nordrassil]

You pretty much just said how I feel. I love LFG/LFR because it’s the content I do, and without it I would feel very lost. But I do acknowledge the damage it has done, and continue to do to the community. So I’m at a bit of a mixed feeling of it myself.

[Timbaeslice-frostmourne]

LFR is great for the game, this current iteration of LFR is absolutely not what I’m guessing they had in mind of what it should be when it was introduced.

It needs an overhaul.

[Nidar-eonar]

@Cutîepie-kelthuzad

Well he slowly realized that LFR is just in every way useless and doesn’t mirror anything special for the playerbase.

I can understand his distaste

Why do you hide under an alt account?
Either 1 of 2 things here:
You are a brand new player, and need to play the game more before you make such conclusions
-or-
You are a Mythic Raider, wanting to hide this fact, because you really don’t want others playing “your” game.

message for those who can’t stand necros… Get over it!! i said what i had to say on the topic!

[Timbaeslice-frostmourne]

@Nidar-eonar

You are a Mythic Raider, wanting to hide this fact, because you really don’t want others playing “your” game.

I can assure you nobody not a single relevant mythic raider cares about what LFR players do.

There is no incentive for us to go in there so nobody cares.

[Nidar-eonar]

Then why do people complain about LFR giving out gear? Why do they whine and complain nobody gets the mechanics, so Blizzard nerfs it. Fact is I got my taste of raiding from LFR… it comes with a bit of reality check, that I still need to watch the video, and then play it again, but soon after I do the same in Normal, despite the idiots in LFR.

edit: I still think the person was hiding their identity… was it you?

[Gwenyo-moon-guard]

hate to break it to you clowns who want to remove LFR, the dev team said multiple times without LFR they wouldnt bother making raids because not enough people did them.

[Timbaeslice-frostmourne]

@Gwenyo-moon-guard

hate to break it to you clowns who want to remove LFR, the dev team said multiple times without LFR they wouldnt bother making raids because not enough people did them.

Would love to see a source where devs had said this even once.

@Nidar-eonar

Then why do people complain about LFR giving out gear?

Who complains? I’m a mythic raid leader and I appreciate the existence of LFR, It’s a chance for non serious raiders to see the story so they don’t feel left out. My only criticism is that LFR these days is not like LFR was when it came out, LFR now cannot be what the devs intended for it to be in its current form.

@Nidar-eonar

edit: I still think the person was hiding their identity… was it you?

First time on the forums? You think i’d lurk behind an alt? Petty.