Is it true there are only 4 classes that get to DPS?

[Akaidian-earthen-ring (Akaidian)]

A shame the only place that type of “being better” matters is in solo open world play, which is effectively useless and pointless.

[Purjery-muradin (Purjery)]

Imagine a ret paladin doing warrior level dps

That would really be something amazing wouldn’t it, too bad this is classic we are talking about?

[Caargon-wyrmrest-accord (Caargon)]

How much gear drops on each boss

2-3 items per boss. All the good fire resist gear is crafted, the mats drop from MC trash and I know at least the plate stuff requires thorium brotherhood rep. Prepare for a lot of farming.

That said, gear isn’t quite the wall in MC. The tanks need FR maxed for ragnaros but everyone else can do with around 150 FR. But you can’t even attempt Rag until you’re either honored or revered with the waterlords, I forget which. I suspect revered.

[Purjery-muradin (Purjery)]

2-3 items per boss. All the good fire resist gear is crafted, the mats drop from MC trash and I know at least the plate stuff requires thorium brotherhood rep. Prepare for a lot of farming.

That said, gear isn’t quite the wall in MC. The tanks need FR maxed for ragnaros but everyone else can do with around 150 FR. But you can’t even attempt Rag until you’re either honored or revered with the waterlords, I forget which. I suspect revered.

The question about how much gear bosses drop was rhetorical as was most of that post, I shouldn’t have use "?"s. My point was it takes a while to gear up a raid for the final boss in MC and get the quest line done to get the item needed to get to the final boss.

[Caargon-wyrmrest-accord (Caargon)]

Fair enough. But depending on luck with drops, I would absolutely expect at least some groups to be killing Ragnaros by the end of October or November.

[Thundathys-amanthul (Thundathys)]

I’d say, with all factors considered, a 40 man vanilla raid is probably equally frustrating when compared to a modern heroic raid (not as hard or demanding on personal skill as far as things like rotation, positioning, mechanics execution, etc…

The “hard” part is getting 40 bodies in the door which comes down to recruitment. The easiest way to recruit is not to hamstring yourself by taking the Meta only. The toughest DPS check is beating rags in under 100 seconds which requires the grand sum of 230 dps for 30 dps.

40 people, having to conserve resources if you have mana) and given that only 30% of max level people who raid get AOTC…

It’s a different game and the difficulty curve is turned way down, MC is LFR difficulty.

yeah, most guilds will struggle to clear a raid in 3 months.

8 bosse-10 bosses 12 weeks to kill them that’s plenty of time.

Clearing MC involves getting a certain level of tier and fire resist gear doesn’t it?

Tier no Fire res maybe.

How much gear drops on each boss and how long will it take to get fire resist gear for 40+ people?

Theres actually better gear outside of the raid than inside of it in a great many cases.

[Purjery-muradin (Purjery)]

It’s a different game and the difficulty curve is turned way down, MC is LFR difficulty

People wiped like crazy on the re-release of MC a while back and people don’t normally wipe at all in LFR at least not in the last several I’ve been in.

Theres actually better gear outside of the raid than inside of it in a great many cases.

What’s better and available for Paladins during Phase 1 that’s better than T1?

[Skjaldbjorn-lightbringer (Skjaldbjorn)]

That would really be something amazing wouldn’t it, too bad this is classic we are talking about?

It would for paladins, they would be brokenly OP, which to be honest, is what I think they want to begin with.

[Thundathys-amanthul (Thundathys)]

What’s better and available for Paladins during Phase 1 that’s better than T1?

No clue as I haven’t looked into it. In alot of cases doesn’t mean all.

[Cerraa-moon-guard]

Here’s a Feral Druid doing 1k+ DPS on multiple bosses. Don’t listen to these other guys who are stuck in 2006 thinking a druid can only heal.

[Thundathys-amanthul (Thundathys)]

That’s PS footage which can’t be relied upon for a multitude of different reasons.

[Cerraa-moon-guard]

Which part? Do you think there’s some weird bug on PS servers that allow only Feral druids to do good dps? Even if the data isn’t 100% right between private server and vanilla server it doesn’t make sense that only Feral would be affected.

[Skjaldbjorn-lightbringer (Skjaldbjorn)]

You can find him on realmplayers, I’m not sure which raids those were, but in his recent Naxx runs he is not doing anywhere near 1k dps. It does look like he is using MCP in current raids, so I am assuming this is a pretty min/maxed character. While I wouldn’t consider his dps bad, it looks like he stays under the top 15.

Of all the hybrids, druids are probably the most viable…I just think that is a lot of work for mediocrity.

[Theloras-llane (Theloras)]

Those won’t even be in the game until the AQ phase. Even then, since paladins in classic can’t use daggers you’re limited to getting 8 mana back per swing of the fastest sword you can find, so on average 1.5-2 seconds. They’ll help once they’re in the game, but they aren’t a solution.

they proc off of Seal/Judgement of Righteousness friend so with a fast 1hander, the mana regen is zomg amaze

[Elanthos-saurfang]

Have you seen how PUGs work today? The raid leader asks for a player with a high item level and often previous successful runs. I can image just like back in the day a raid member asking for new tank will pick a warrior over a paladin even if they have to wait an additional 10 minutes to get a protection warrior.

Are you suggesting that people will be pugging 40-man raids?!?! Surely only guilds will be doing them.

A protection Paladin doesn’t have a taunt so they can’t tank swap.

Was tank swapping really a thing back in Vanilla? I thought bosses were mostly immune to taunts.

A protection Paladin stops producing threat when they run out of mana and they can’t get mana back. Producing as much threat as possible involves using a lot of mana which is difficult to get back since there is so little paladin tanking gear.

Which is why they’re mostly viable as dungeon tanks and as off-tanks in raids, because in both roles you don’t need to hold on to aggro as long as the main tank in a raid would have to.

I really think you’ll find that there won’t be as much difficulty clearing content as in original Vanilla. A lot of players didn’t figure out how to play the game well until BC (or even WotLK, in some cases). And because New Classic will be easier to clear than Old Vanilla, I think there will be a lot more tolerance for SOME less optimal specs. And I genuinely believe that protadins will be one of those.

[Vod-emerald-dream (Vod)]

Back in vanilla, as a reckoning paladin (2h Prot) I was allowed to do whatever I wanted in the raid (heal or dps). We also had shadow priests, and feral druids. We cleared almost everything except Cthun and KelThuzad, with PvP specs. There was maybe a handful of people at most, who brought tryhard PvE specs.

That being said, we were only the 2nd farthest progressed guild on our server (in pve, we were a pvp guild) and might have been first if we forced PvE specs.

If you are good at your class, you can find a good enough guild that will allow you to participate in raids with specs that are suboptimal for pve.

[Stimpäk-proudmoore]

The only raid that really needed to be “min-maxed” was naxx and even then they rules were more guidlines then actual rules. (Minus the frost resist and what not )

“Command wants us to fight like machines. They want us to make cold, calculated decisions. But we are not machines, and if we behave like them then what is the point in winning?”

[Akaidian-earthen-ring (Akaidian)]

The question isn’t about if a guild will allow one, two , a few dead slots.

I’d say a majority of paladins desire to play ret, like a majority of the game desires to play DPS. Probably in the same proportions. The question is: do you really see there being enough guilds out there that can actually facilitate that many retnubs or sub-optimal specs in the numbers they will exist?

How many paladins like you were in your raid? (I’d wager you were it)
How many raid groups were even on your server that made it that far? (most servers had one, maybe two guilds that were worth being in)

You’re selling a dream that I really don’t think will be the outcome for most people. I tend to avoid giving false hope just because something is theoretically possible and favor what is a realistic outcome.

[Vod-emerald-dream (Vod)]

We usually brought 8 paladins. One paladin per group, and only one of us was holy spec (not me).

That being said, during “current content” we usually were stuck healing, buffing, judging wisdom/light, and cleansing debuffs. You don’t “need” to be holy to efficiently heal in vanilla as a paladin, if you play it right. I was usually in top heals when I did so, with almost no overhealing. Flash of light is amazing.

As for our shadow priests and feral druids, they were able to dps because our paladins took up the healing mantle for them.

[Valrena-wyrmrest-accord]

Considering we’ve seen people already clearling content they shouldn’t even be able to in Classic, I don’t think raids will require as much min-maxing as people remember it.

The reality is, we all have better computers, better controls, know the game better, have guides at a minutes notice. Game is significantly easier.