Is it true there are only 4 classes that get to DPS?

[Ghyslain-tichondrius]

That makes no sense.

The game being hard is great, but having to put in many times more work to still be comically inferior to another class in the same role does not feel good nor are there any positives to things being that way.

[Treuburch-korgath]

What youre seeing is people who never lead raids and only had specific rolls they filled replying with that “I never saw the warlock dpsing” or w.e, Whats the actual truth is what i just said; You wont see a warlock DPSing in MC but you will see them banishing and soulstoning and handing out healthstones and other things like that. Each class and spec has a specific roll in each raid and they cap at a certain number of that class that part is true; you only need 1 or 2 locks in MC NO MORE or youre cutting another caster DPS thats needed for AOE or Interrupts

[Orcguy-altar-of-storms]

While it’s true that hybrid classes deal less damage than dps, they do bring group utility to buff the other dps.

• Shadow Priest: Shadow Weaving. Buffs all shadow damage on bosses. Your warlocks will love you.
• Balance Druid: Moonkin Aura will buff your casters and healers.
• Feral Druid: Leader of the Pack will buff your melee and hunters.
• Enh Shaman: Your melee will love your windfury totem.

Ele shams and ret pallys are really the only 2 specs which don’t seem to bring any utility to make up for the damage, at least from what I recall. The only raid utility specific to ret is Sanctity Aura, buffing all holy damage by 10%, which is as useful as you think it would be.

[Theloras-llane (Theloras)]

That makes no sense.

The game being hard is great, but having to put in many times more work to still be comically inferior to another class in the same role does not feel good nor are there any positives to things being that way.

then you have obviously not been paying attention this entire time my friend

what you just wrote is literally why we love it - for the pure hard mode challenge of it all to try and get as much DPS as possible out of what was/is considered to be a lolmemespec and end up beating “pure” dps classes…

[Ghyslain-tichondrius]

Enh Shaman: Your melee will love your windfury totem.

Enhancement Windfury totem is only very marginally superior to the stock version. If the Enhancement Shaman doesnt have Nightfall, they are, mathematically, a waste of space.

[Theloras-llane (Theloras)]

@Orcguy-altar-of-storms

Ele shams and ret pallys are really the only 2 specs which don’t seem to bring any utility to make up for the damage, at least from what I recall. The only raid utility specific to ret is Sanctity Aura, buffing all holy damage by 10%, which is as useful as you think it would be.

you might want to read the threads below as the meta will be changing forever when it comes to Retribution once Classic launches

The Spelladin - new Retribution meta for Classic

Courtesy of DexterBravo: Gear competetion - That T2 gear that every pally wants for PVP or RP, isn’t good for holy. But it is BIS (likely forever) for Spelladins. That’s 8 pieces of items that is Spelladin prio, which won’t be replaced in ZG, AQ, NAXX. That’s a lot of gear for happy warriors, casters, etc., that otherwise was wanted by the AP ret. Actually viable DPS most likely (none of us know how Classic will be tuned in the end). Much better than AP ret – more dps, more mana uptime…

Nightfall - Melee Hunter vs Ret Paladin

Special thanks to Taladril - https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20762086160 and Keftenk for testing things out for me here where we had an interesting discussion on taladril's discord regarding: Nightfall Binds when equipped Two-hand Axe 187 - 282 Damage Speed 3.50 (67.0 damage per second) Durability 120 / 120 Requires Level 60 Chance on hit: Spell damage taken by target increased by 15% for 5 sec. http://classicdb.ch/?item=19169 Troll Hunter Nightfall: +6% Haste Enchantments Hand of Ju…

TLDR - Enhancement + Nightfall has the lowest uptime by far of any class/spec for the +15% spell dmg debuff.

[Ghyslain-tichondrius]

for the pure hard mode challenge of it all to try and get as much DPS as possible out of what was/is considered to be a lolmemespec and end up beating “pure” dps classes…

That never happened unless you were in competition with literal potatoes. Literal. ACTUAL potatoes, perched carefully atop the keyboard.

That is the only way your “lolmemespec” beat anyone. Even if you out geared them by an entire tier… That never happened… And will never happen if your competition has any idea what they doing.

There is no honor there. There is no vague connection or similarity to the “Riddle of Steel” You’re putting in twice the effort to be half the man.

Twice or more the work to remain inferior when paired against even somewhat mediocre players, simply because their class was better as DPS than yours.

A fury Warrior in pre-raid gear but played efficiently will only fall 70DPS shy of an Enhancement shaman in full, game wide BIS, also played efficiently.

Even the things that Rets/Enh could do to attempt to justify themselves (Nightfall, for example) were done better by a hunter.

You never beat anyone who had even a vague idea of how to play their class. If you’re okay with that, that’s on you, but I’m not.

[Skjaldbjorn-lightbringer (Skjaldbjorn)]

That never happened unless you were in competition with literal potatoes. Literal. ACTUAL potatoes, perched carefully atop the keyboard.

[Theloras-llane (Theloras)]

is this really the hill you wanna die on?

how much do you wanna bet that I can show you not one but TWO Retribution Paladins beating most if not all pure DPS specs on a Naxx raid boss?

[Ghyslain-tichondrius]

how much do you wanna bet that I can show you not one but TWO Retribution Paladins beating most if not all pure DPS specs on a Naxx raid boss?

Give me a raid parse and a dummy parse for the same people, then we’ll talk.

It is mathematically impossible for any pure hybrid to win a DPS fight without extenuating circumstances.

is this really the hill you wanna die on?

Seeing as you don’t seem to know what you’re talking about and your argument is “I dun seen it, Cletus!”. Yeah, I’ll take my chances.

[Theloras-llane (Theloras)]

Give me a raid parse and a dummy parse for the same people, then we’ll talk.

It is mathematically impossible for any pure hybrid to win a DPS fight without extenuating circumstances.

again, is this the hill you wanna die on?

[Theloras-llane (Theloras)]

your funeral…

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/484066218911727618/484066275199287321/double_ret_deeps_thaddius.jpg

[Ghyslain-tichondrius]

again, is this the hill you wanna die on?

Again: Seeing as you don’t seem to know what you’re talking about and your argument is “I dun seen it, Cletus!”. Yeah, I’ll take my chances.

[Pressuredrop-firetree]

thats just dumb. shamen, warlock, feral druid, and ret pally all can raid dps

[Ghyslain-tichondrius]

your funeral…

That is not even a raid parse… that is literally “I dun seen it, Cletus” and what amounts to a fuzzy picture of what is supposedly big foot, swinging his dong out of the bushes.

I think you’re confused about whose dying and on what hill here, my boy.

It’s also Thaddius, a fight that is notoriously bad for Melee DPS because most of them can’t manage their own health.

You are delusional.

[Theloras-llane (Theloras)]

how much do you wanna bet that I can show you not one but TWO Retribution Paladins beating most if not all pure DPS specs on a Naxx raid boss?

this is literally what I wrote friend…

“how much do you wanna bet that I can show you not one but TWO Retribution Paladins beating most if not all pure DPS specs on a Naxx raid boss?”

[Skjaldbjorn-lightbringer (Skjaldbjorn)]

That is not even a raid parse…

I believe these are what you are looking for.

legacyplayers.com/Raids/Viewer/?id=12431&exp=0&upl=19645

legacyplayers.com/Raids/Viewer/?id=8911&exp=0&upl=13875

Don’t let him cherry pick enoucnters Overall ret does incredibly bad. There are a handful of fights that allow it to seem like it isn’t a compete waste of space.

</> preformatted text button to post links is your friend dude

I’ve not spent much time learning how this new forum works.

[Theloras-llane (Theloras)]

</> preformatted text button to post links is your friend dude

[Ghyslain-tichondrius]

this is literally what I wrote friend…

And I told you to show me a raid parse and a dummy parse from the same people. Something you wouldn’t deliver even if you had it cause then you couldn’t keep trolling me.

You are delusional. Ret, Enhancement and Feral are all trash tier, no matter what you do to convince yourself otherwise.

[Theloras-llane (Theloras)]

why would I show a full raid parse when I haven’t raided on that server in literally over a year?

never mind the fact that no one looks at full raid parses anyway - only intellectually dishonest people do like (cough TipsOut cough)

you look at individual boss fights - not full raids lol