Is it true that Night elf society is matriarchal

Lore Story Forum
603

Doing a search, it appears it was not quoted earlier in this thread.

Tyrande did not imply that. And Broll thinks to himself right after how that is not Tyrande’s way.

Likely as Tyrande does not consider herself as having total authority over the Night Elves, as, mentioned in the Ultimate Visual Guide, Tyrande fears becoming like Azshara, and so likely avoids autocracy like that.

I am not, as the 7,300 years after the Druids went into the dream is significant enough time for Night Elf society to have become matriarchal. The Night Elves are most definitely still matriachal.

Also, a small correction I have to make for something I said back in our discussion of what would happen if Tyrande was not around after the Sundering:

I just noticed in Chronicle that Tyrande actually formed the Sentinels herself after the Sundering, so a correction on my part that without Tyrande the Sentinels would not likely exist at all.

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604

Learn to search, man. This took me 2 secs. I know for a fact it has been quoted multiple times, but I am not going through 600+ posts to find them all.

Yes she did.

That is what you are doing.

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605

Was this the section you were talking about?

    His thick brow rose. Tyrande could, if she truly wanted to, complicate his life by ordering him to do whatever it was she desired.

    But that was not her way.


These were Broll’s thoughts at least. I am having a hard time finding Tyrande’s thoughts on the matter.

Though, the full passage about Tyrande ordering Broll does match what I just mentioned about Tyrande being fearful of autocracy:

    “With all due respect to the general and her considerable skills, I’d much prefer to go alone.”

    She was adamant. “You will not. If I must order you to—”

    Broll grunted. “You needn’t. If you really think this best for Malfurion, then … I’ll trust to you, high priestess.”

    Tyrande’s mood softened. She reached out abruptly to touch his shoulder. As she did, a faint glow of moonlight briefly spread over the spot. The moonlight briefly engulfed Broll before fading into him.

    “You have the blessing of the Mother Moon … and my gratitude, too.”

    The male night elf bowed low. “I’m deeply honored by both, my lady.”

    “I am Tyrande to you.”

    The druid bowed, then began to retreat from her presence. “No… to Malfurion, you are … to me … you are my high priestess, the embodiment of our people’s hopes …”

    He slipped out of the tent. Tyrande pursed her lips, wondering if she had done the right thing.

Just like in the passage I quoted before, it is not Tyrande who sees herself above Broll and the other Night Elves, but Broll and the other Night Elves that hold Tyrande far above themselves, even when she does not want them to, which makes Tyrande fearful of abusing that trust.

It is not, for as you can see, the Night Elves are most definitely matriarchal.

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606

She said she would order him if she had too, which implies she has the authority too… Period.

607

I had let this one go becuase I’d proven my poiny multiple times and I was getting to sucked into this. But it’s calmed down so I’ll respond.

Yes that is the section I was speaking about. I just reread that section and Tyrande is leading that conversation. That section to, me anyway, is Tyrande’s pov. Especially since it mentions that not being her way. Could it be Broll, maybe but even so the fact that even he knows that she could just order him is very telling.

This is the same thing I had to argue with Faelia over. She knows she’s leader but due to Azshara’s actions she will not abuse the power.

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If it is Broll, then that sounds more like a projection Broll has on Tyrande, as Tyrande doesn’t want him to be formal with her, yet he is still about being so because he holds her is such high regards.

If it was Tyrande’s thoughts, I find it more telling that she does not consider autocracy her way. Which I agree with you, because she doesn’t want to become like Azshara. She broke her own reservations and said she would order Broll to take Shandris with him because she was worried for Broll and didn’t want him to go alone because she cares about him as she does all the Night Elves. And even then she had a moment of regret immediately after that she would step on that line she doesn’t want to cross.

There is something else I did want to ask you, though:

Since these posts it has come to our attention that these passages are all actually in the game itself:

    Somehow, by the grace of Elune, Malfurion, Tyrande, and Cenarius had survived the Great Sundering. The weary heroes agreed to lead their fellow survivors and establish a new home for their people.

    Malfurion declared that they would never practice the arts of magic again.


    Under the druids’ benevolent leadership, the night elves enjoyed an era of unprecedented peace and tranquility under the stars.

    The druids could not bring themselves to put so many of their kin to death, so they decided to exile the reckless Highborne from their lands.


Does this affect your thoughts on the matter at all?

609

I figured we’re agreed on this. While I think believe the society it’s a matriarchy, Tyrande never wants to be seen as sn all powerful ruler that no one can question.

To your second point I was speaking to the manual in it’s entirety. I don’t think everything in there it’s still considered lore. The points you brought up however are still current. Exile of the Highborne however was added in classic or BC according to the patch number. I thought current lore included Chronicle doesn’t give the impression of who was full leader, a point a had to correct myself on. In any case I did state before that I think the society became a matriarchy over time and that the druids, mainly Malfurion was the one with authority. Especially since all of them were students except Mal. Did I answer your question?

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610

You did answer my question, thank you.

Looking over some things, I’d say that the Druids having lead the Night Elves and then left them for the Dream might have made the Night Elves overall even more matriarchal than if the Druids hadn’t lead and left. Jarod himself somewhat addressed this in Wolfheart when he explained why he had disappeared during the Long Vigil himself:

    “I had already considered leaving everything . . . long before. I had grown disenchanted with the polarization of our society. Your druids—forgive me, Malfurion—your druids had been becoming more and more remote, spending most of their time away or in the Emerald Dream rather than sharing in the responsibilities of keeping our people safe and secure. . . .”

    The archdruid said nothing. He had heard this from others, including Tyrande. The guilt for all those centuries of abandonment still remained with him.

Though only slightly related, Malfurion does openly admit this guilt in Seeds of Faith as well:

    “I know that I have been absent too often before—it troubles me. I wish I had been there when Teldrassil was formed, when my brother met his end in Outland…” He sighed. “Yet I cannot change the past. I can only be here now.”

If the Night Elves had prospered so much under the leadership of the Druids, only for the Druids to then leave into the Dream, that abandonment might well have made the Night Elves’ attachment to Tyrande all the stronger, and the guilt of the Druids for having abandoned them make the Druids all the more humble to stay behind Tyrande when they finally rejoined the Night Elves after the Long Vigil.

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611

It is worth noting that power isn’t necessarily a by-the-books concept. More often than not political power isn’t dictated solely by what is written on legal parchments.

Malfurion is a huge name that wields incredible power within the Kaldorei society because he’s one of the great heroes who saved the world and lead them down a path away from the dangerous arcane, shaping their entire culture. His druids would likewise have some measure of power by virtue of having literal magical power and their direct association with Malfurion.

That doesn’t make it not a matriarchy though. As far as I can tell Tyrande does, in fact, have all the legal authority and political power by virtue of how the government is set up. The Sisterhood of Elune are the leaders of the night elves as a political body and that Sisterhood is still exclusively female at the top ranks. They command the military as well, which is a massive force of political power.

So in a government sense Tyrande controls both the faith and the military, two cornerstones of the Kaldorei civilization. Through the military she also wields the most direct power in that she could, in theory, choose who gets her protection and who doesn’t. Through faith she could also, theoretically, decide certain individuals are no longer “graced by Elune’s favor” and effectively excommunicate them.

Basically, Tyrande has immense direct legal and cultural authority. She could become a tyrant very easily if she had the mind to.

Malfurion only has legal authority over the druids. The druids have authority within the Kaldorei society due to their magical abilities and their cultural significance, but I don’t believe they have direct legal authority over anything outside of the Circle. The one exception being the ban on arcane which kind of makes sense as druids replaced mages as the Kaldorei’s chief casters.

However I don’t think Malfurion has ever really been in a position where he could become a tyrant save maybe at the very beginning of the new Kaldorei society, and even then a cultural struggle between the Faith of Elune and the druids would almost certainly go to the long standing religious institution with direct authority over the Sentinels.

The only confusing bit is where Malfurion and the druids made and enforced the law concerning the arcane, but this isn’t necessarily druids exerting political power on their own. It isn’t like Tyrande wasn’t on board with that particular law or that the druids didn’t have the full support of the Sisterhood in enforcing it. Could the druids have passed that law without the approval of the Sisterhood? I don’t believe so.

Basically “Who has the power” is more complicated than “who has legal authority” and a society can still be matriarchal and have a male organization with a degree of power within it. What is important is that the very top of that leadership totem pole is exclusively female and that the all female organization has a greater sphere of influence than the male group. Which in the case of the Kaldorei seems to be true.

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Technical nitpick, but I think only Elune herself really has this power, and Elune is very forgiving, as Elune herself reached out to Zamael Lunthistle to save his soul after he fell in with the Twilight’s Hammer.

And:

At the current time Malfurion has as much legal authority as Tyrande does, as noted in Wolfheart:

    archdruid Malfurion Stormrage—her co-ruler and mate

The Ultimate Visual Guide also notes them as co-rulers.

Even when Fandral was leading the Druids, I doubt there could have been a struggle between the Druids and faith in Elune, as most Night Elf Druids are still very devoted to Elune. So even at the beginning of the new Night Elf society after the Sundering, Malfurion and the Druids would not likely have really been tyrannical, though the Highborne might have felt otherwise.

It is also notable that it was Tyrande who uplifted the law against the arcane, so even where Druids made and enforced laws, Tyrande still did indeed have say in the matter.

Overall, though, I agree that the Night Elves are matriarchal, as even Malfurion puts Tyrande ahead of himself, or at least it feels that way in Elegy:

    Malfurion stopped in front of a flowering patch of peacebloom and gazed at its white flowers. “I will see that Tyrande’s orders to send soldiers to Silithus are carried out. To that end, I will recall many Sentinels, and others who can fight, from local assignments to fill the army’s ranks.”

    “Understood, Shan’do.”

    He smiled sadly. “You will be among those reassigned, Sentinel Briarbow. I fear I must ask you to return to Silithus. We need those familiar with the territory to accompany the troops.”

    All too brief a stay. “Of course,” Cordressa replied. “When do you wish me to leave?”

    “I want you on the first ship.”

    She nodded.

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No. You haven’t. You keep repeating that same line.

You mean that same thing that we have been posting again, and again yet you completely IGNORED time and again?

Name one.

Enough. Having an Honest debate with you is impossible. Whenever confronted with ANYTHING that contradicts your own headcannon, you ignore it and pretend it was never said, or completely misrepresent/misinterpret it to mean the exact OPPOSITE of what it says.

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True, things do get more muddied when the goddess can speak for herself if she so chooses.

Still, being Elune’s chosen voice in the world gives Tyrande very Pope-like authority. Nobody is going to second guess whether or not what she says is the will of Elune. At least not unless Elune actively chooses to replace her because she’s gone mad.

Though at that point Elune is technically the supreme leader of the night elves and she’s still a woman.

Indeed. People in modern times sometimes overlook how much power being the supreme religious leader can be. I’d imagine more than half the druids would never refuse Tyrande as Elune’s voice.

And since Elune’s voice can only be a woman that makes their religion matriarchal.

True. After Malfurion woke back up I imagine much of his legal authority comes from being Tyrande’s husband and chosen co-ruler. Tyrande wants to share power with him. She hates being the sole supreme power.

Of course he has his own incredible cultural authority, but so does Tyrande. And she arguably has more so as the religious leader.

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615

Oddly, we don’t really have any statements that say Tyrande made him co-ruler. In Val’sharah she says that they work as one now that he was awake again, as if he never left, implying they co-ruled before he went into the Dream for the Long Vigil as well, and they didn’t marry until Stormrage.

616

Possible, though like I said before having power is different from necessarily having legal power. Malfurion definitely had a leadership role before going to sleep as the teacher and leader of the druids, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he had power from a pure legislature perspective.

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617

I’m not sure what you’re saying in that sentence. It doesn’t make sense.

618

How so?

If the person who speaks for the goddess is and can only be a woman then the religion by nature puts women in a higher position than men. Therefore it is matriarchal.

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619

Well first, just because only a woman has claimed to have spoken for Elune, doesn’t mean that only a woman CAN speak for Elune.

Second, You have to ask whether or not Elune actually “speaks” to Priestesses or if she just shows them visions.
Once, long ago, Priestesses had a means to speak with Elune when they had the Gem of Elune but that has been “misplaced.”

620

I thought she said as much right before the wedding. But then again it may not have been an official declaration.

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The Sisterhood of Elune are explicitly an all female organization and only the highest ranking member, in this case Tyrande, can be Elune’s voice on Azeroth.

Elune might communicate her will to other priestesses, but Tyrande is the one that is supposed to represent Elune and her will on Azeroth. That is what I mean with “speak for Elune”. That is literally Tyrande’s job description and there is only one High Priestess at a time.

And every single one of them since the founding of the church has been a woman. Starting with Haidene, the first High Priestess from over 15,000 years ago, to Tyrande now.

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What I was getting at was that, is there any actual Lore about Tyrande “hearing” Elune’s voice? I mean Literally. Haidene I know actually “heard” Elune.

I can name several where Tyrande spoke TO Elune, and where she’s had Visions, but not since the Gem of Elune has anyone “heard” Elune speak. FYI, you as a Male Player hears (reads) her voice during the quest Guardians of the Altar.

EDIT: Actually, there’s a least a couple of quests in which a Voice (presumably Elune’s) speaks to you as a player.