It’s kinda odd Like if I wanna mist weave Im going to have to fistweave? I don’t enjoy fistweaving I think just casting spells and such is much more enjoyable.
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Ugh. Honestly, the novelty of Fistweaving wore off for me long time ago.
Esp when EVERY HEALER CAN DO THAT.
Oh WOW!!! i can DPS, but my DPS can heal people! WOW!! I’M SO GLAD TO BE A HEALER,
SO I CAN DO 
SOMETHING DIFFERENT THEN KILL ENEMIES ALL DAY!!!
HALLELUJAH!!! 
Sits down, lets out a long drawned out sigh. 
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Dying? It hasnt been a thing in a bit.
What level of content are you doing?
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Every node in Conduit of the Celestials hero talent tree has casted abilities as its trigger. I don’t see any reason why you’d have to fistweave to get value out of the tree, beyond the powerful talents that already exist which encourage fistweaving.
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You’ll still have talents (and hero talents) in TWW that support a more caster-oriented playstyle. Whether it’s strong or not is up in the air because numbers are likely to change a ton between now and 11.1.
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It works just fine right now in season 3…well season 4 soon so that might change.
Thats actually a big problem for me, because one of the goals of hero talents was to not make certain builds feel “required” to use them, yet here we are with what is basically a fist weaver only one.
Sure i can still play conduit, but fist weavers use all those spells too, so they still have a choice. Casters do not.
Its disappointing sure, but it is what it is. Fist weaving is like Breath of Sindragosa for DKs. They are trying to shove it down our throats and build the spec around it despite a lot of people heavily disliking the playstyle.
Oh well. Guess im benching my monk again next xpac.
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I love fistweaving, but I don’t see why caster MW shouldn’t also be viable.
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Bold of you to assume they’ll give Monks a second pass…
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Disc priest, Hpal and MW are the only ones that can DPS while healing, full time.
Druid and Shaman have a CD that lets them heal while doing damage for a set period.
And Evoker has nothing that I know off.
For higher levels of play when even 20K DPS can make or break a key it’s good. If you don’t like it, stick to lower keys and just sit on your hands when no healing is needed.
The removal of essence font will affect caster MW in M+ a lot more than damage changes. Hopefully the Conduit of Celestials spell makes up for it.
Even though it’s rarely played, caster MW has been great in M+ all expansion. It doesn’t do any damage, but healer damage is almost meaningless now. In a month dps will be doing 400K overall while healers are struggling to do 60K. Don’t let the lack of caster MW damage keep you out of M+. Groups aren’t bricking high keys because of the timer. They’re bricking high keys because people die.
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I’m not really sure how realistic it is to expect every combination of hero talents to be completely build agnostic. At some point, there are going to be certain abilities that are heavily featured in one build that are less prominent in another. It’s not like you can’t make good use out of Master of Harmony if you’re focusing on casted heals, there are just some melee abilities that are featured in a couple of the talent nodes.
Monk is a melee healer. Even if you don’t take a single fistweaving talent, the game treats you as a melee. Mechanics that target only melee will target you. If you want to contribute damage in downtime, you realistically have to do that in melee (yes you could technically use jade lightning, but that deals very little damage).
I don’t really understand this logic before you’ve even had a chance to try monk in TWW. Even if the purely build agnostic hero path is fun, you would bench that character because you have fewer options than people who are fistweaving?
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We’re losing essence font? D:
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You are technically correct. But the amount of times someone will actually use it that way is pretty rare
I would not invite a monk to my group to heal if I knew they were playing a caster build.
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Life-Giver’s Flame turns Fire Breath into a pretty potent party heal, and with Leaping Flames offensive Living Flames will often cleave to party members to heal them. That’s it though.
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Punch monk is best monk
I would say caster MW has been dead for a while
- doesn’t do extra damage to make up for not doing damage all the time
- sometimes the lack of cast-while-moving is deadly
- more stressful gameplay than punch monk
- probably worse on mana also
These are indeed the reasons why caster MW isn’t played in M+.
For M+, Caster MW can do way more healing than what’s necessary even at higher key levels, so might as well choose the variant that contributes to enemies dying faster.
For Raids, caster will likely still be the best due to its 1 minute ramps, which are only accentuated by the two Hero trees. But with the removal of Clouded Focus it will require more tuning and data.
It boils down to Ancient Teachings doing much more healing if fighting multiple enemy targets.
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There aren’t great options for caster, but there are some. The real issue with caster vs. fistweaver still remains that casters have nothing to compensate for the loss in damage contribution. They don’t have any utility that the fistweaver doesn’t also bring and they don’t do massively better healing. They need to add some caster-specific utility or damage buffs that are caster exclusive. IE: give caster monk some augmentation style buffs instead of direct damage or something.
In some cases there’s paths in the new trees that have almost no melee-specific stuff and then there’s just one node that messes it up like the third talent on the left side of master of harmony is the only talent in that path that is specifically melee. The middle path of Master of Harmony can be purely caster, though you have to use Chi Burst. The right side of Master of Harmony would be caster-friendly except for Balanced Stratagem seems melee oriented (I don’t think any of our ranged things are physical atm?).
Conduit of the Celestials main ability is actually more range limited than harmony since it’s 20 yard range. The refreshing jade wind line is also ranged limited though you could be casting in melee range.
I would say fistweaver is more stressful in difficult content than caster because a lot of your healing is smart healing and players who are used to being in more direct control of where their healing is going would be made very uncomfortable relying on fistweaving mechanics in a dangerous situation.
To me, fistweaving feels better in pointless content because there’s such little healing to do anyway you might as well be DPSing. I hated fistweaving in a higher M+ but I have no issue with it in a heroic or easy M+. I haven’t played DF much since S1 though so I didn’t play it with all the changes that came later on which seem like they were pretty good?
It looks like changes they made later in DF (after most people had stopped playing) may have finally put it in a more popular state, but they also seem to be getting the biggest nerfs going into the next season so I’m guessing they maybe made them OP to see if they could actually get people to start playing it?
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