Is calling players out for low DPS considered harassment?

Just and interesting, food for thought question here:

Is calling players out for low DPS considered harassment?

This is largely being posed following FFXIV’s latest “Live Letter” by that game’s lead developers, where they spent a decent chunk of time asking players to not use various “third party tools” for things like altering character models (… you can probably guess into what), semi-automating certain parts of gameplay (instantly moving markers), and circumventing gameplay mechanics (giving too much information like where certain AoEs are going to land).

But quite notably, they stated that they would not be adding an “official” parser (essentially a DPS meter); translation so far has been unofficial, but it has been described as creating “toxic” behaviour. This was also followed up by stating a game too focused on “efficiency” was their idea of a “fun” experience.

They also went as far as describing the act of calling out players for low DPS as being harassment. Again, this is relying on an unofficial translation at this point… but it is in line with their actions, notably that they don’t bring the hammer down for breaking the rules UNLESS someone starts calling people out for under-performing.

In any case, it’s important to note this is coming from the LEAD DEVELOPERS. Not some pundit from the internet or anyone else, but the people in charge of making the game, writing the rules, and in the end enforcing them. It’s also true that not everyone in the FFXIV community agrees with them, but at the same times the rules are the rules.

Interestingly, much of it comes across as a plea to follow the rules before they have to come down hard on enforcing them.


That all being said, WoW isn’t FFXIV.
Add-ons and DPS meters aren’t against the ToS here.

… but it still raises an interesting question, is the act of calling someone out for low DPS still considered harassment?

Looking at the way this community acts, often reaching for degrading comments (any variant of calling under-performing players “bad”), I find it hard to disagree. I’ve long been against DPS meters for the effects they’ve had on the community (even found myself slipping into some unsavory behaviours when I’ve tried them), so I could be a little biased here; nevertheless, their use is not against the rules here.

But are the actions and behaviours they end up encouraging against the rules?
Could these actions and behaviours be accurately described as “harassment”?

I can probably guess the WoW community’s answer at this point… but sometimes, just posing the question can make people stop and think a bit.

Who knows, despite my cynicism this could go either way. :popcorn:

6 Likes

Depends on how you go about it.

There’s helpful ways, and there’s being a d-bag.

Ffxiv also frowns on the dps meter addons as they don’t allow any addons. It’s a little different here.

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Depends if it’s a alt or main ext.

It’s 2020–everything triggers/harass/offends people these days.

48 Likes

I mean, technically, anything that you say against someone can be taken as harassment. But I think it also has to do with how you call someone out for something.

If I see someone struggling with damage despite their gear, I will offer them advice in what I know about their class/spec, but I won’t push the topic. Thats just me. Some people would love to have advice, while others play a certain way that they deem is more fun despite knowing that it cuts into their performance.

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No.

WoW content is primarily group based. It’s not harassment, or even rude to point out when someone isn’t pulling their weight.

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A well-worded mathematician’s answer there.
Not incorrect… but not really answering the question.

I probably should have expected those types of answers.

So’s FFXIV.

It just begs the question as to why do they take such a hard stance against these behaviours when WoW doesn’t?

Example 1: “Hey , I’m really sorry, but I’ve gotta kick you from the group. We could maybe get this thing down, but you’re not really at where you need to be for this place, and it’s not fair to the rest of the raid that is. Check out some guides for your class to try and up your damage, and maybe I can take you next time.”

Example 2: “You scrub, how you’re doing so little damage without being literally comatose is some kind of miracle of failure. Get the %#$! out of here with that garbage performance. Your mom deciding to carry you to term was the only mistake worse than welfare epics.”

One of these is harassment. One of them isn’t.

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Ok it may be a bit vague.

If someone is trying but using wrong talents/stats or messing up rotation, you could say “hey I was looking at the logs, it may help to do blah, blag, and blah”

Or you can go “scrubdub git gud, you suck at this, uninstall”

One is helpful, one is harassment.

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To just answer the question;
It’s largely dependent on how you call them out, because if you say “yo dumb wheelchair warlock, why are u pulling 15k less than everyone”, that’s harassment.
If you literally just ask “warlock, why’s your dps low,” I don’t think you can fault someone for it.
Whether they take offense though, is a different story.

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They’re less about competition, more about community.

That’s why they have a bunch of adorable outfits with less restrictions on transmog/glamour.

Also their events are usually silly and updated yearly.

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being low dps if your gear is good is harassing entire raid/group.

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In a raid/dungeon I think there’s a min dps needed to kill the bosses and if you aren’t killing them before enrage then dps is low.

Then there’s like some say and players have good gear/item level and their dps is sub par.

Most players I run with kick them but it’s usually after a boss kill and if they get loot it’s prob not going to improve them any. Ran into alot of those types of players before 8.3 came out.

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Calling people out publicly in a way to shame them, yes.

A whisper with helpful advice and maybe resources to look at, no.

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Depends on how it’s done I suppose. Trying to point out someone’s mistakes isn’t harassment but being a butt over it might push it over that threshold.

As for FF14, I’m not sure why they went into so much detail in that last live letter. Their stance on third party software/mods has been the same since the beginning. My only guess is that they wanted to reinforce their policy due to the sheer number of people coming over from WoW.

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Side note, whats with the influx of people abusing flags?

Did they change it so one person can hide other peoples posts?

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I think so long as you don’t do it in a nasty way it is helpful to them.

Because FFXIV pve is overly designed to be simple and easy whitout any great mech introduced since stormblood besides healers DPSing the boss so he doesnt go for enrage timer which has been the forever meta. Its endgame is also easy and bland compared to other mmos.

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Seems that way, some clown is mass flagging again.

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Other than the fact the main reason WoW has gotten so insane when it comes to Mythic is in direct response to addons. Anything outside of Mythic in WoW isn’t any more difficult then FF14.

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