Is BM as bad as it appears?

ST only seems to be relevant against bosses. AE is traditionally much better in all OW and trash fights because even if you want to dispense with each in turn, whoever your with will want to pull them all.

This is one reason I really like Death Chakram: it was versatile. If there was only one target, it would repeatedly hit it. Otherwise it would spread to various targets.

I think we’d be better of if Black Arrow just behaved much like Death Chakram in this way.

H>C>V>M as much as random drops will let me. So much V+M gear.

You know where damage matters.

World content damage is irrelevant.

If you want the AOE MM and Survival are options.

Chakram was boring and pointless. It was a use on CD and forget it ability.

Maybe but Id rather keep our strong ST

Have you crafted gear and gotten the haste bis trinket yet>?

You do realize sims are to be taken with a grain of salt right?

Bosses are not going to have perfect stand still situations in the majority of situations.

No one said it’s properly tuned.

I have said it’s not as big of an issue that you and all the other hunters that hide on alts or grey parse keep claiming it is.

Do you wonder why there are multiple hunters that play at a mythic level keep telling you it’s not as big of an issue as you’re making it out to be?

Not to me, other than killing rare elites.

To you, maybe. Personally I’d rather eat my own legs than M+/raid/PvP so OW matters a lot. It’s what I enjoy. I do it to relax. And now it’s felt the worst it has in years. Everything is a chore.

And when I do dungeons, I’m doing rotations to compete with the tank.

Hard pass on melee so SV is out. And I’ve never liked the MM rotation. If I wanted to play melee, I’d play Ret or WW. Frost mage actually got buffed in the prepatch. I haven’t tried it but that might be the play.

How is Black Arrow any different? It’s also use on CD but just less versatile.

This is a good point. Let’s see how the DPS rankings look once M+/raids open.

1 Like

So by that logic when the guy who writes the hunter guides for IV (Azortharion) goes on Liquid’s RL’s stream and calls BM complete beans (aka poo) in M+ it doesn’t count? Or it doesn’t count just because it doesn’t fit your agenda?

6 Likes

Raiding/mplus is what matters. Damage is irrelevant on open world content.

To me and the designers of the game. Your damage in open world is irrelevant. It’s literally designed so everyone and every spec can complete it.

Your damage tuning for open world isn’t even a factor when balancing classes.

It interacts with the spec a lot more via basilisk collar.

Rankings are irrelevant for the vast majority of the people in this forum.

You do realize no one is saying it’s good in mplus right? Single target based classes tend to not do well in mplus. Hunter still has MM and Survival for Mplus

My word are you dense.

So if BM hunter turns out to be top DPS in Mythic raids then I’m happy for those this helps. Personally, I couldn’t care less.

I couldn’t care less about M+ performance (vs OW) other than these two things are somewhat correlated. Why? Because BM has never had great burst damage (unlike, say, Arcane mage). It’s always been mostly about sustained DPS combined with the relatively survivability you get from a pet.

Now the pet’s ability to hold threat is really limited in 11.0. You really have to work for it. And the DPS isn’t great eitehr to the point where you have to start asking questions like “why don’t I just be a bear?” because you’ll get much more survivability and pretty equivalent DPS.

To you.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

The vast majority of players never step foot into “high end” content. Blizzard has actually done a really good job of making this experience not suck for ~1.5 expansion (9.0 was kinda icky). Blizzard gave us Veteran/Champion gear through OW for a reason. It’s because this is the majority iof players. Mythic raiding participation OTOH is in a dire state. We’re talking players only in the thousands.

90-95% of players will never set foot in a BG or arena.

That leaves M+, which of the three, has the most participation. Most of those players won’t push high keys. Maybe they’ll do enough to get KSM and call it a day. Maybe not.

So Blizzard can either design the game around the 10,000 who care about high end content or the millions who don’t.

You just said:

Which is it?

And we all know the rankings matter because meta slaves will make decisions based on them. If BM is 50% of destro then who’s getting the invite? You might say “BM DPS is sufficient” and it might be but that won’t change the fact that people will optimize their time, wehther they need to or not.

2 Likes

just did 1 heroic as bm 1 as surv. surv pulls well over twice the dps.

4 Likes

BM is in a very bad spot, probably to cull the population of BM hunters. It’s THAT bad, at levels of bad that will make lots of players switch to something else.

6 Likes

Then you are fine. BM is great in single-target and open world rare elites, which you said is the only thing you care about.

What part of open world content damage doesn’t matter because it’s tuned form literally everyone to be able to do it.

You’re tuning needed for open world doesn’t matter.
G

Not wrong.

I never said they did.

60% of the player raids at some level.

Raid tuning is a factor at all levels but it matters the most high end which is still a good 10-15% of the playerbase.

Mythic raiding percentage is 10-15% of the playerbase.

This still doesn’t have a point. Mplus requires tuning and is considered when balancing classes.

World content is not.

Your numbers are drastically off.

Both of them are accurate. Like it or not this game is balanced/tuned around mythic raiding and mplus.

Why are you commenting on something you don’t?

Every spec is capable of pugging to 3k io.

This is valid the BM Hunters will have a rough time in LFG regarding Mythic plus and non solo rated pvp. I personally can see buffs coming for BM outside of the pack leader ones though just a game of patience needs to be played. Although they could end up being pvp only buffs to BM cause they do separate things by pvp and pve in the class tuning change notes if they see fit.

It does count. Take Ion Hazzikostas interview I watched about about a week ago. Ion said “Tuning for the most part isn’t taking into account or focused on that very Cutting Edge the very very top players. We’re designing Mythic Plus Dungeons and we’re balancing them for the Hundreds of thousands of people who do mythic plus dungeons, then there is this open-ended progression system that will let the very best prove themselves at the top.” Here is a link with the time stamp to where he said that here https://youtu.be/7qSG3S6qB5s?t=175

Stop feeding the troll.

3 Likes

It’s not.

People really need to stop doom and glooming.

Yeah Azortharion said for mythic plus its garbanzo but if you don’t mind going melee Survival is pretty fun for dungeons imo. EDIT: its in his guide https ://www.icy-veins.com/wow/beast-mastery-hunter-pve-dps-guide

Clearly I’m not or I wouldn’t be here.

Everything feels awful. Everything feels like it takes too long in a way that we haven’t seen for at least the last 2 expansions in any major patch. It also affects any queued content.

Yes. LFR and paid boosts (eg AOTC runs). Exclude them and the picture looks pretty dire. There are various data points to support this (eg the parses from Mythic raiders). Bellular does a pretty decent job of reviewing Mythic raid participation in comparison to previous seasons and it only ever seems to go up temporarily for the first patch of an expansion (if at all) and then keeps dropping and has done so since at least BFA.

It absolutely is not. Just lookk at the number of Mythic [end boss] (eg Fyrakk) kills in parsed logs. Or how many have the Wowhead profiles have the relevant achievement (eg <5% for Mythic Fyrakk). And profile percentages will overstate participation too because of the sampling bias of who has the Wowhead client installed.

Having watched this pattern play out 1000 times, it absolutely will. This is the general pattern:

  1. Blizzard decides there’s a problem based on player complaints. This part is really important. Only the volume of complaints matters in deciding what gets fixed;
  2. Blizzard takes too long to “fix” the problem, if there even is one
  3. They overreact in whatever way they’re going. Things get buffed too much or nerfed too much. Whichever direction, it’s always too much.
  4. Go to 1.

Every time. I’ll probably just play a different spec/class until then or farm old content.

1 Like

mm is near bottom of the barrel right now as well. but i can tell you this. when you play bm for a dungeon and then swap to mm and go into a dungeon, well mm feels like S+++ tier versus bm. and mm sucks outside of that baby window of initial burst cd.

so bad. worst i seen bm in years. just so sluggish and slow. by the time you get in 2 barbed shots and beastial wrath, and multi shot to get up beast cleave for kill cleaves and then get in your 3rd barbed shot for 3 stacks… well… the mobs are dead.

and and and, if they didnt die yet you will see the healer is ahead of you in damage lol.

yea bm is in a very sad state right now.

5 Likes

Yep, healers are out-dpsing me on trash lol. We are not competing with the tanks, we are competing with healers.

9 Likes

I’ve been running BM in arena since BFA just because I could, and it’s bad enough right now that I’m swapping to MM most likely for Arena this season. Unless BM gets some much needed love in the damage department, it’s a gutter spec right now. Some people will make it work, there’s always players that are the exception to the rule that do, but I’m getting far to old for that much of a struggle.

Edit: Sorry Kekmor wasn’t trying to reply directly to you, the technology that runs the forums hates me.

1 Like