Well… it showed mostly that thing because conveniently a bunch of things were left out. Which is what breaks the suspension of disbelieve.
IMO from another thread
Well. I personally just stopped caring about all of it, and here is why.
Let’s say, for whatever reason we would try logically look at the events of BfA.
So, do we see Tyrande during the possibly upcoming siege of Orgrimmar? No.
Malfurion? No.
Turalyon during battle for Undercity? No.
Sure, the alliance lost quite a bit, but won both warfronts, and some horde members sided with alliance. So, the horde army lost twice, lost extra people who sided with opponents, and supposedly had an upper hand?
Could, objectively, neutral organizations, ignore what could happen after burning of the tree™? Would it have no meaning for nature, and Cenarion Circle? Not meaning anything for stability of Azeroth, and thus, for Earthen Ring?
We now know that Bolvar saw Sylvanas as a threat. Any actions? No.
There are lightbound who promised to help if needed, and would likely not pick the same side as mag’har. Any discussions about them? No.
There is a spaceship, which, at the very least, could be marvelous for solving logistical problems. Was it ever used? No.
So… it’s one of those thing where the devs say “you should believe it!” and I look at it and think “but… what?..”
Sigh … looking at the response to a suggestion where an Alliance character gets manipulated into acting on the laundry list of grievances the Alliance does have against the Horde … the responses are disheartening. I even gave Turalyon several outs to make it not a Villain Bat scenario (something Blizz has never afforded the Horde); as well as Means, Motive, and Opportunity … and still.
Seriously, as much as they complain about not being able to smack the Horde around for vengeance … too many Alliance players would freak the hell out and demand any questionable act be buried under a mountain of justifications if their faction ever even fringed on grey. The Alliance is supposed to be flawless, perfect, oppressively powerful, and always proven right. Even Turalyon, a man who has known only war for a thousand years; who has been gone from Azeroth since before the 2nd war; and who shouldn’t be an expert on the current political landscape of Azeroth … is expected to wind down and be a master of those politics immediately.
Man, Anduin could not be a better representation of the Alliance lol! Pure to an extreme, to the point where that moral absolutism infringes on the expected Alliance power fantasy. No wonder the Horde and its races have to have ALL the flaws, and are allowed none of the virtues. The Alliance can’t have any of the prior, and are the embodiment of all the latter.
It is disheartening how soo many alliance players absolutely love the Pure as snow and so perfect, we can’t even conceive of anything less than perfection alliance faction.
I give up honestly. We’ll just have to face the fact that for the majority of the ally playerbase, anything less the perfection simply won’t do. But than these same people will scream and rant and rave about not being able to exterminate the horde down to the last man, woman and child.
I’m honestly confused about what these players really want. They flip flop so much.
They want to be able to wipe out the Horde, but they want Blizz to maintain that absurd level of insulating them from their own actions while doing it. They want their cake, and they want to eat it to. Villain batting is not acceptable no matter what the Alliance do; their actions must always been absolved, justified, or at worst handwaved away. The purity AND the power fantasy are thus maintained. If both aren’t maintained, then how could they possible enjoy just one or the other.
In short, Alliance fans love the Superman Power Fantasy. But, not y’know, the well written Superman that remembers that Superman is the mask the Clark Kent wears (and Clark Kent is fallible and has allowed flaws). But rather the SM stories that revel in his demigod nature and ubermench qualities. The SM stories that forget Clark Kent. The worst ones.
And people honestly wonder why I am not Pro Alliance. I’m only on this side due to the worgen. It’s like you said, they want to commit these atrocities, they just don’t want the baggage that comes along with that. You know, ultimately loosing some of their demi god heros and having a faction that’s barely functional.
Not really. And it would be better if no one in the story would be. Well, maybe except Azshara, but that’s besides the point.
IMO the main thing it all points out is that the devs created a situation where it all looks… meh. But I think there might be a way. One of possible is that Varimathras thing, where we might see several alliance characters die in not so distant future.
With Vereesa the story of loosing Rhonin barely was used. But Alleria is another story. Tess would be way more bloody than Genn too. So, there are ways. There are blood thirsty characters in the alliance. There is Anduin going in a darker direction. Death of several key characters is foreshadowed.
It just does not have to involve the light, especially given what is foreshafowed about it. Most of it (if Velen’s vision from his short will be true) might sacrifice themselves.
Fragment
And yet, for all this, the greatest shock to Velen’s senses came as he saw those that flew just beyond the army of dragons. The naaru had taken the field, so many that Velen didn’t understand how creation could contain them. The power of these beings of Light filled Velen’s heart with hope, swept away the lonely centuries, and left him in wonder that he could ever despair, that the dark, no matter how terrible, could ever truly reign.
And then a shadow fell.
It was vast and empty and swallowed all light that entered it. Velen knew it would be all consuming until, at last, it would turn and devour itself, endlessly gnawing on nothing in the Great Dark Beyond, removing all meaning from the universe, from the most heart-breaking sonata to the most arresting sunset. It was too terrible to see, to comprehend, and yet the army headed straight for it. And the light began to fade…
Stained Pamphlet:
THE END OF ALL THINGS
The crooked serpent with no eyes is watching from the endless sky. Forked tongues flicker through the black pits in dead stars. The veil between dream and dreamer slides away like skin from bone. And even the darkness howls for the light it once despised.
Take a break, eat something tasty, and come back again when you feel better.
I love the GAME. I suppose I’m just tired of the hypocrisy of the many ally posters on this forum. Like I said, they want to commit these crimes against the horde, but they also want to remain unblemished and pure as snow at the same time.
It’s like…which one is it? You can’t have both, you know?
“I want the attention the Horde just got, but not the type of attention the Horde just got. I want a story that lets me slaughter the Enemies of the Alliance, but makes me feel good about it; something I convince myself that the Horde playerbase just received to hold it against them. And justify my need to punish them for my own narrative satisfaction. I want the infighting, without the collateral. I don’t want to spend half an expansion killing my own people. And I certainly don’t want an entire expansion+ telling me my faction is both weak and shaming me for playing them”.
In short. “The Horde playerbase is deserving of the poor treatment, I feel entitled to a far better one, and I deserve to feel good, right, and powerful.” Truly, is it any wonder that the Horde and its races come off as so riddled in flaws? We’re forced to pick up the slack because the Alliance isn’t allowed them.
Who? Who are these Alliance players you refer to? Do you mean Ikaar? Cause I don’t think he cuts it. Who is it that have a problem with the Alliance getting a bit gray in exchange for payback?
So, I briefly though about alliance and more evil ways. IMO we have in the story so far:
Tess Graymane as a much more agressing leader (potentially) than Genn
Alleria going wild if something happens with her family
after Anduin declined the request of Tyrande, night elves might feel betrayed and come to realization, that maybe there was a point in the Empire and start moving to embrasing the old ways
dwarfs are easy to provoke, and iirc some were on board with attacking the horde, so they might be easy to hop on the “hype train”.
Anduin giving into the void.
And if something “morally grey” is needed, we have story about Night Warrion carving out the elven Empire. Which means… if Azshara knows a way to live through the ritual, Malfurion might face a choice: here is a person he hates, passionately, yet she might be able to save the love of his life… And where could that go, with night elves starting to see Azshara as someone to bargain with, not too hard to imagine.
It just does not have to require placing Turalyon on the edge of being out of character, there is enough of it in the story as is IMO.
From the gist of most conversations on the matter? Either:
The Horde grows up and solves its own problems. Leaving the Alliance alone so that grand cosmic adventures or explorations into the deepest darkest corners of Azeroth can take center stage consistently, ooooor…
The Horde = Mordor orcs and they get krumpt as hard as Mordor orcs ever did. No redemption’s, no fourth or fifth, or sixth chances with an Alliance pat on the head to try and make it go down any easier.
Basically, make them a reliable if occasionally quarrelsome friend or an enemy that can be gutted as guiltlessly as any demon. Would a middle ground be “better”? Maybe, but after years of ping-ponging back and forth I can safely say patience has all but dried up on both sides. Blue team just doesn’t have the same in-built motivation to keep trying to find said middle ground.
Stormheim is a perfect example of the alliance doing something morally dubious. We just need more of Genn and Admiral Rodgers going off the rails and comiting their own brand of justice more
The sheer, utter, and absolute irony of a Horde player saying Alliance players want to be insulated from the repercussions of the Alliance’s actions. While on a Horde character. That they can still play. In a Horde that still exists. No matter what attrocities the Horde gets away with, scot free.
Her family was in Southshore. So… I mean it creates interesting stories.
Say, some forsaken learning about what happened with their loved ones because of the horde. That could make them hate the horde and other forsaken so much, that the night elves would be remembered on this forum as an example of peace and diplomacy.
That is of course if they will find a way to get into the alliance (I’m looking at you, Calia).
I could get behind that. It’s certainly feasable that there some forsaken who do want to start a new life post sylvanas and want to reunite with any living family members. And you’re right, Calia can provide the calming motherly nature needed to help both sides intergrate peacefully. While Voss leads the forsaken who want more business as usual.
The fact that we’re protected by game mechanics and game mechanics alone is a poor justification and comparison to a faction that can do no wrong in the first place. Ever. Under any circumstances. They are filled with races that are by their nature pure, and blessed, and virtuous to their core. And any time anyone suggest that maybe the faction fringe on just the tinyest bit of grey, they freak the absolute hell out. DEMAND that Blizz bury those nuanced moments under a mountain of justifications. Truly, there is nothing human about the Alliance. They’re concepts.
The Horde doesn’t get away with crap. The Orcs are still defined by their atrocities. The trolls still by their savagery. The Goblins still by their destructiveness. The Elves still by their arcane addiction. We’re weak, ineffectual villains that Blizzard feels more free to use; because they simply aren’t allowed to do questionable things with the Alliance. As pure and perfect as they are expected to be. The very fact that Blizz has gone so far with the Horde to where we Horde players even being allowed to play the game anymore is “reward enough” … is in part because there cannot be any nuance in a two faction game where one faction is so untouchably morally absolute.
You want to know why the Horde as to be SO flawed and SO “grey” … its in part because the Alliance can never be. So someone is forced to pick up the slack.
And all that ever comes from it is an Alliance NPC might say some mean things every couple of years (followed by five more Alliance NPCs behind them reassuring you about how honorable you are). However do you manage to bear such a heavy, heavy cross?
The very fact that the Alliance has to be the ones to save us shows just how truly deep rooted the Purity of the Alliance really is. The Horde is not only evil, we’re weak and prone to infighting to. The only virtue we can conceivably have is being friendly to virtue itself the Alliance. The only reason we’re even allowed to exist at all is because of the beneficence of the Alliance. Shame that purity test that needs to be maintained is used against you in times like that.
The Alliance being used as a stopgap for the how Blizzard chooses to use the Horde (because they use the ability to actually include flaws as an excuse to do whatever they want with the Faction) is out of mechanical necessity alone. And it certainly was lovely being told I was a bad person IRL because of the Faction I enjoy for two years. It truly is a huge burden on the Alliance not being allowed to be all powerful and all right ALL the time. Solely because game mechanics require it.
Man … Anduin truly is a perfect representative for the Alliance. Pure, Immensely Innately Gifted, and always right in the end. Its weird he receives such a negative response?
They love the Human potential while also lamenting on why they aren’t allowed to murder horde women and children down to the last one. It’s truly a weird position many of them maintain.
It’s too much for one day 