It’s a great concept, and one I and I’m sure others can get behind. I mean, the whole Squeeky clean, never do wrong and always right alliance is boring and not as fun as blizz thinks it is.
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I don’t even care anymore. It won’t help.
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Blizz Dev: But, anyone who doesn’t want to play as Jesus can only want to play as Hitler! Grey is half black and half white, so a ‘Morally Grey Conflict’ can only be the result of one side being pitch black and the other side being pure white! All things exist only in binary! 11100101001 0110 010 101001 10101100 011011 1010 frizzle spitz* sputter
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That made me laugh and sometimes I honestly think that’s blizzard mentality. It certainly appears that way. But these are the same guys that wrote Legion which was a pretty good expansion. So it makes you wonder where it all went so horribly wrong with BfA.
It would certainly help put the story back on a decent track. I just think the biggest problem is that blizzard truly has no idea how to write a morally grey alliance, without going overboard on chaotic evil shenanigans
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The Nightborne also aren’t sequestered within the city proper, anymore. They (and by extension, the Horde) have the entirety of Suramar the zone to use for lumber, fish, game, agriculture, and minerals. And a decent sized chunk of it, considering game scale is shrunk down from “actual” size.
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The stories for all the individual zones were good fun. I think it’s just the faction conflict they can’t write for crap. Possibly it helps that when you’re questing, you’re always the hero of your own story, but in the faction war they seem to think there MUST be a Good side and an Evil side. Not ‘two sides that are merely competing for the same resources’ or ‘two good sides that disagree on what good means’ (because GOOD is a monolithic ideal shared among all who are GOOD). AT BEST there’s a correct and mistaken, but the mistaken side is only ever mistaken because they’ve been directly mislead by Evil.
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Why not though?
They had to write horde into the main story and writing monsters is hard they’re icky. 
Anyway heres more ELVES and HUMANS.
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To be honest, we do not know either.
I mean, maybe. But there are some problems with that. Like, Turalyon being the one who told Anduin not to follow the Light blindly. Or there being more to the story of the lightbound. We did not see their perspective.
I think the problem is a rapid change of leadership and maybe not just them. Celestalon -> Chilton -> Hazzikostas. Last team was formed so late iirc, that IMO BfA was just an attempt to reuse whatever could be salvaged. I think Shadowlands is the first properly developed expansion in a while.
I will take a look at it eventually myself, sure, but is it the case that the alliance assisted in Suramar only to see it going all into the horde?
Has its problems too. I still do not get when was Night Watch betrayal forshadowed in previous expansions. Feels confusing and disappointing, investing time to help Darkshire to see it suddenly being undermined like that.
IMO the devs make good short stories. For cinematics, or in zones. But big ones kind of… Not my cup of tea I would say. Not sure what would be a better solution - invest more effort into those overarching stories, or not to waste resources and do more of what they do well.
gl hf
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The game already had a “the horde was framed to look bad” plot point and it resulted in Cataclysm + MoP. Why would this turn out any better?
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Every expac is going to have it’s problems, you know, things that don’t add up with the previous expac, but Legion was still largely enjoyable. I think where blizz really excels at storytelling is doing zone specific storylines. They seem to really struggle with tying it all together to lead us into the next expansion though.
Because it won’t undo what’s already been done.
I mean, unless Blizz wants to go “Genocide is OK as long as its only Cultural Genocide, and an Alliance race does it” … pretty sure they’re going to be villains. Which … in hindsight … they might claim Yrel was right culturally purging an entire World.
Also, Turalyon seems perfectly fine Light Torturing whatever Horde race he runs across these days, so … Y’know … so much for that lesson.
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Well, he was perfectly fine watching his wife use the void to mind torture people in front of their children. So, it’s just more alliance hypocrisy.
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We have players who still insist the alliance are as bad or worse than the horde, or that what the horde does to the alliance is justifiable or should only be blamed on the warchief.
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Well, if alt-Draenor was indeed dying, that would actually be a good basis for a “faction conflict” both fighting for survival, both trying to do something good. It’s just not clear who actually was the source of the problems.
If in all timelines orcs attack draenei, maybe in all timelines orcs somehow do things that lead to destruction of Draenor. Like an attempt of “time” to “fix” timelines to lead in the same direction. If Draenor fell apart in our, supposedly main timeline, it might have to become like that in alternative one.
Well, that’s not the whole story. IMO the bad side in it is actually that Turalyon tried not to do it, and failed, while Jaina succeeded. Such is the choice of the writer to put Jaina on a moral pedestal, but I do not think it’s a good one. Feels rather manipulative.
gl hf
I was under the impression, while questing during WoD, that no matter how hard anyone tried, that the orcs were going to attack the draenei, Draenor was going to become Outland,etc. The only thing we really altered per se, was stopping Ner’zhul from becoming the Lich King in the alternate timeline. The rest of it mostly ended up becoming true. Like the Iron Horde eventually becomeing the Orcish Horde we knew from Warcraft 1…It just took longer to happen and a bit differently
Though, it would’ve been better if Ner’zhul had a vision of what he was destined to become and was simply trying to use the Dark Star to prevent that.
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It not as if this hasn’t been the case since at least Beyond the Dark Portal. BOTH Turaylon and Khadgar were actually squeamish about torture but did it anyway. The Horde has never had qualms about using torture(see Theramore prisoners and Sylvanas’ experiments). We players can torture someone for Dalaran in Wrath.
I dont particularly see why the Alliance would need to concern itself with it, particular if the Horde doesn’t either. (and in this case because from my understanding the physical injuries are healed).
An argument can be made that killing is a worse offense but we do it anyway because we have no choice in the matter. Is torturing someone something we should try and avoid? Of course, is it inherently morally wrong? Definitely but might be morally justified in extreme circumstances(namely in hunting someone that is potentially trying to destroy the entire world).
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Your point? They’re not me.
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This is simply wrong. I agree that blizz uses it as a crutch but canon is canon.
You have a very differnt idea of stong than I do. Losing everything and falling apart doesn’t qualify for me.
Genocide is bad. You can’t simultaneously count it as a win but shame horde for it. Alliance could, but wouldn’t. That is the difference. Okay, you didn’t kill a bunch of civilains, shame on you. Alliance won lorderon, Sylvanas had a scorched each backup plan, might be the only instance of light planning ahead by her. Doesnt change the fact alliancece steam rolled Brill and pushed her to the point she had to use that plan. Force the self destruction is a win. Holy crap did alllinace mow down horde forced during that event.
Alliance raided dazaralor, striking a significant blow to an ally the horde was trying to get. That whole plan went flawlessly for alliance. Took arathi, whether you acknowledge the dev comment or not its canon. Flat esrther deny science doesn’t make em right.
Re-takeing org, I might give you. I really think that the combined saurfang/anduin army would have taken it but at a masive cost. If you play threw the horde loyalist side you see that sylvanas forces are depleted, and they are forced into throwing civialns up on the walls, and that there is a rebeion force growing within the gates. This show how far BfA dragged down both the horde and alliance.
You can cherry pick and ignore stuff to try and say horde had it good and alliance was nothing but crapped on in bfa. Horde lost everything after WoT, thats a fact. Allince won, most everything after. Maybe not in a resounding way or in the eye for an eye “allince need their turn at genocide and stomping on babies” kind if way you advocate for. I will stick with my original stamement.
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