Atleast the factions responsible for those actions were almost destroyed. You don’t believe the Alliance will get that catharsis do you?
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I mean, the horde and alliance were almost destroyed anyway but obviously nobody on either side has gotten catharsis out of that either, so I don’t see why those should count. 
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So you just admitted that the only way you can feel satisfied is for the Horde faction (an entire PC Faction that had no control over this story) is destroyed?
EDIT: And as a side note, none of these “Factions” have been destroyed. We dealt with their problematic leaders and called it a day. The Scourge still exists without Arthas, clearly. The Legion still exists without Sargaras, KJ, and Arch. The Naga still have their Queen. They remain as intact as the Horde is.
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Not at all. I’m saying the Horde got the catharsis of their enemies being destroyed. The Alliance will have to settle for something else, if they get anything at all.
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Why would it need to? Wouldn’t it be better to just accept that some things were not clever and just not repeate those things?
I personally have much better opinion about Rokhan, who moves forward and does not try to dump the horde in dirt, who seemingly accept that thing that happened already happened; than about Lor’themar, who’s opinion seems to be “I hope we can put all the blame on Sylvanas”.
IMO it would be better to have a stance like " 
happens, and let work to fix things", rather than “now we have a coucil, so everyone should forget about everything that already happened”.
Not that it’s what the devs would want to, but if we have a fantasy of players having an influence over the story direction.
Are you talking about NPCs, players, or?..
In the story, I see the consequence of the events opening the potential for something rather unexpected. Now when Anduin, let’s say, “offered limited help”, that created a vacuum. And this is the time when highborne are accepted far better among night elves than before. Also, one of older night elf quests had such line
Precious Waters (quest)
The moonwells hold the waters of the Well of Eternity, the ancient source of magic that has wrought so many horrors upon our world. The druids take advantage of its properties, the Sentinels revere the wells as shrines to Elune, and now even the returning Highborne look to the wells longingly.
I think the action of Anduin could result in him placing the fist stone into rebuilding or at least reminding the elves about the days of the Empire. Maybe they had a point after all, if the alliance members are reluctant to assist and the elves have to find another path.
Aluneth :
The naga wield magics, yes, but without finesse. There was a time Azshara’s people had the potential to rival the titans.
Perhaps Anduin created something no one expected. And if it will turn out that Azshara could know about a way to survive the Night Warrior state… I think you see where it might go. Or not. I think it could be interesting turn of events, but it’s just my opinion.
I think that the idea of a faction conflict is somewhat absurd because one of key story elements that the devs push above all is that it’s necessary to be together to fight for greater_good™. Which make all of it pointless.
I personally would prefer dropping this idea altogether to allow each faction to focus on itself. Some cooperation might happen here and there, but overall keep more Classic approach - horde focuses on the horde, and alliance - on the alliance.
P.S.: if walls of text are problematic, I can shrink the posts.
/cheers
gl hf
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And this is where the discussion breaks down completely.
This absurd belief that outside a small, very annoying vocal minority that revels in playing villains, the Horde loved Teldrassil. That somehow the Horde “got something positive” out of the only battle we were allowed to win turning us into without question the weak, ineffectual villains of the entire expansion. That somehow that event didn’t result in an excuse for even the writers to shame us for playing Horde; even moving into SLs. Or that somehow being made hapless tools in a genocidal act and being constantly suggested we’re bad people IRL by Alliance players for playing Horde for the last two years … is somehow some great catharsis.
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I was actually talking about the scourge, the legion and the naga being almost destroyed. All three did terrible things to the Horde, all three paid for it. For the Alliance, the same thing obviously won’t happen. And make no mistake, the Horde is comaprable to the Scourge in how much damage they did to the Alliance.
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I legit did not feel that way at all because it felt like the faction didn’t matter when it came to those enemies going down. I got the impression that the horde felt left out with an unresolvable cliffhanger instead.
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They still paid for their crimes with their destruction. Not to mention it was Horde adventurers along with Alliance adventurers that were integral to their downfall.
None of these factions “were almost destroyed”.
We fought them until we had a chance to take out their problematic leaders, then left them to their own devices. The Scourge are not “destroyed”, they’re still a writing mass of countless souls trapped in eternal torment. The Naga are still a thriving subaquatic population, and even Azshara is still alive. The Legion are still very much “alive” … they’ve just been rendered inert with their 3 main leaders dead or sealed away (but, as entities of Fel, they’ve just been allowed to return to their natural state of disorder in reality). And again, none of the Horde races hurt so brutally by any of these factions were allowed relevance in even their leader’s defeat.
None of the leaders responsible for the WoT are even a part of the Horde anymore. Even the War Profiteer Gallywix is gone. The only two core leaders of the Horde left are those two least antagonistic to the Horde. The AR leaders were hapless fools along for the ride. The Horde central seat of government was dissolved and a new system is being built up in its place. Seems the outcome is exactly the same as those factions to me; right down to the race we hurt not being allowed relevance in their enemies’ leaders downfall (at least as of yet).
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I always find it amusing that some people tend to forget that this isn’t Sylvanas first attempt at genociding an alliance race. I’m biased, I readily admit that, but the Worgen/Gilneans are the ones who truely suffered at the hands of Sylvanas and the forsaken twice now.
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I don’t care. If it doesn’t look like the horde contributed to it, then it doesn’t feel like those aspects were a factor.
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I’m not forgetting, I’m just also not ignoring the fact that the only reason the Worgen haven’t been given Gilneas back is exclusively Blizz’s own lazyness and refusal to invest the resources to do it. The Forsaken lines are broken man, have at it. Though … considering it took over a decade for Blizz to simply remove the Antagonist of the Bilgewater’s intro story as our Racial Leader, its not shocking something that would take far more money to do hasn’t happened.
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But they were still defeated. Even if they still exist they were beaten to the point where they were no longer a threat. On the other hand the Horde is till very much a threat, perhaps more than ever. That is the fundamamental difference. The scourge was neutered by installing bolvar as king, the legion lost both their leader, their leadership and argus itself. The naga got their teeth kicked in, their queen killed (before she returned to life) and most of their other leaders dead as well. The Horde is still, despite losing Sylvanas and Nathanos, relatively intact compared to those i’ve mentioned.
I mean, the assets for GIlneas city are already in game. I can’t imagine it’s That expensive to remove the blight and put the city back to it’s orignal state. But I’m not expert so.
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I like your idea of Rokhan stepping up becoming Warchief (with a sweet brand new boss model to reflect his importance) and just sorting out the Horde step by step. The council is horrendous, it may make sense for the Forsaken to have one these days but a Warchief is important to Horde identity and culture, now the Horde feels more bland and not progressive or evolved as the writers think.
NPC’s, players can go and do whatever they want really. I mean, I can go to Stormwind if I wanted to, I just never want to. 
Yep. I’m with you on that 
. Similar to WotLK as well with both sides at odds with one another but still co-operating and not engaged in an all out total war.
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The Horde losing every single battle after the one the plot demanded we win to label us the villains; to the point we again had to rely on the Alliance to clean up our own mess … is not a defeat? And again we’re back to “The only way I can feel satisfied is by being allowed to destroy an entire PC faction”.
The gutting and replacement of nearly every core Horde race’s leader (save for the two least antagonistic towards the Alliance), and the replacement of the Horde’s entire central political power structure … seems sort of like the Horde went through a lot of changes due to BfA?
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/offtop
I think just some reparations would be good enough.
If I could demand something - send Calia back to the alliance. The rest can be negotiated.
And yeah, just since the horde got vulpera which alliance players wanted (well, that’s what I’ve heard, I could be wrong), also - san’layn as an allied race of the alliance. [edit: maybe botani too. And give saberons to the horde…]
gl hf
I mean…let’s be honest, and I remind those who tend to forget, I am NOT a alliance fanboy, but people do have a point. Story wise, it makes zero sense that the horde is allowed to function on it’s own, without having the alliance lording over them, to keep them in check.
I get it from a Meta level, that the horde has to exist. But the horde has proven multiple times now that they can’t be trusted. Now, I’m not calling for the horde to be exterminated, I just find it jarring that the alliance keeps trusting them.
I’m not saying that at all. i’m saying that the ones who hurt the Horde has been defeated quite decisively, while the Alliance obviously won’t have the satisfaction of that happening. And if you had bothered to read my comments higher up, you would know that I don’t want the Horde to suffer the same fate as the legion/scourge/naga. I’m only saying that all three of these were beaten quite hard, while the horde has not, which is the major difference.
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