Stromgarde and Gilneas.
New and old characters that get to keep being part of the story in a positive way (Flynn, Shaw, Umbric, Shandris, Maiev, etc). You even got Malfurion removed from his neutrality and actively fighting the Horde, unlike during Cata.
You get to kill Nathanos and, depending on how the story goes, possibly Sylvanas as well.
Also if you’re spiteful enough you’ve got the ability to lord BfA over the Horde for the rest of Warcraft’s life.
Not yet we don’t, not counted until I see them in game.
We’re not even at war with the Horde anymore. And the dude couldn’t even tag team a single Undead archer with no superpowers along with Tyrande, and these two are supposed to be the most powerful people on the planet.
Again, hasn’t happened yet and who cares we get to kill Sylvana’s boytoy after she’s spit him out.
0% chance the Alliance will get the killing blow on her, less then 5% chance she’ll end up dieing anyway.
How can I ‘lord’ BFA over the Horde when the Alliance got the short end of the stick. BFA showed Horde as evil but Alliance as WEAKLINGS. In a 2 faction game, not everyone wants to be evil but NO-ONE wants to be weak.
That’s about the response I expected.
Yeah sorry I don’t count things that aren’t actually in the game 
I was right though about the Alliance getting nothing to show for it from BFA
Because our victories meant nothing in the end. In the end, it didn’t matter that we won those battles, because apparently the war was called off, just like that. Tell me a single thing that the Alliance gained from the war itself. One single thing. The Horde gained pressence on Kalimdor when they destroyed Teldrassil and the majority of the Night elven population. What did we gain?
I want Teldrassil to matter going forward, that it won’t be swept under the rug. That when war comes we can use it as justification. Or that the Horde atones for what they have done. That’s it.
Well, I play more alliance lately, even though I started on the horde side. Alghough that does not mean that I can speak for others, but still. Some thing I would like to see from the devs when it comes to story.
*example of a tough choice - say, Jaina had limited forces. So, she either would help Thrall, but leave open her homeland for invasion and close to her people would die (Katherine in the Maw, maybe unfixable), or she would go protect Kul’tiras, but Thrall would know, that he was rejected, and a bunch of horde members who opposed Sylvanas could be killed.
Something like that, when there is no right choice, rather than “Anduin always right!” or “just touch Thrall, and that will fix all the problems”, or, “there is the right™ way, and if you have any questions about it - you’re wrong”.
gl hf
I agree entirely that it needs to be represented in game. It doesn’t even need to be huge, just make some comment about securing the area after taking it and that horde retreated.
Wasnt it stated by Ion that Alliance took both back? Even if not in game i don’t think it gets any more official then that. But then again… he said a lot of things.
What about chronicle or other books? If its stated there but not brought in game does that not count?
Are you saying it showed the horde as strong? We had one instance where we had even a small semblance of a victory, that was the WoT and it all got thrown away when sylvanas threw her tantrum. When the objective is to capture the flag and you burn it down, you don’t complete the objective, you lose. On top of that THE ENTIRE HORDE ARMY ON KALIMDOR got trounced by town guards and civilains of a single faction. Horde was put through a meat grinder by the B and C teams. Horde was shown as not just evil, but stupid, incompetent, irrational, and weak. Yeah your right no one wants to be weak, but in bfa everyone was. Alliance just got to win the rest of the war, I know it doest make it a great, good, or even a mediocre expansion for Alliance. But now we all know that if horde starts a fight, alliance will finish it. Thats what alliance gets to lord over the horde.
BfA, as a whole, trash. For horde, for alliance, for blizzard.
Not really. I play the game, very rarely read the books. It takes way more effort to portray things in a video game then in a book so if the only Alliance ‘wins’ are in books all it tells me is that Blizzard can’t put in the effort.
Relatively speaking? Yes.
Still got to genocide an Alliance race and destroy their entire zone, an act the Alliance couldn’t anywhere near mirror. Not only do we not kill a single Forsaken innocent, we don’t even get to destroy their capital, they do.
What are you talking about? Alliance didn’t finish anything. Again, someone from the Horde got to finish the war(Saurfang by outing Sylvanas), and Alliance had to team up with half the Horde to even dream of defeating the other half, which they didn’t end up doing anyway. That’s pathetic for the Alliance.
Sorry you’re just spouting a bunch of nonsense
To be fair, the couple of them that even existed were already killed by Sylvanas before BfA even started.
I never said that’s what Alliance got in BFA. It’s if the Alliance were offered those things AFTER BFA.
But there’s the question, how? That’s what I’m asking, what form of atonement would satisfy your Alliance perspective? I keep hearing the Horde needs to “pay” in some form, I get the Sylvanas dead or Ashenvale reclaimed but it does seem many want even more than that.
Do you want the Horde to now indefinitely play second fiddle under the Alliance’s command?
Do you want a long drawn out apology from every Horde leader in game or cut scene?
Do you want the Horde leaders humiliated in Stormwind trade district being strung up and lashed 50 times?
Do you want the Horde’s military dissolved?
Do you want all Horde cities to be under Alliance occupation with Alliance guards everywhere and Alliance officers must be present at every Horde meeting?
Do yo want Horde leaders to mandate that certain cultural practices like Mak’gora are now outlawed and more Alliance cultures are to be not practiced?
Do you want all of the above?
This is what I’m saying when I ask, how?
If you’re expectation is the eradication of an entire PC player faction for something its players had no control over (or at least, the sterilization of that Faction for future stories) … then its your unreasonable expectations that are at fault. Little else. The Alliance power fantasy has become unwealdy and completely absurd over the years anyway, so you getting a black eye on your “Pride” is the least of my concerns. The Horde had none, you can take a hit.
On a Meta Level the Blues lost a single capital no one visited. The only character they lost was Blademaster Taleamon in a very hero centric game. The EK Alliance lost absolutely nothing of note. The NEs lost nothing that would impeded them for future storytelling, since population numbers have never once mattered in this game. Outside of a truly unreasonable “Power Fantasy”, none of the Alliance racial fantasies (outside of the NEs) or the Faction Identity were damaged in any way.
The Horde in contrast may be damaged beyond repair; and even if it could be repaired to some extent, Blizz’s horrific decade long track record of deep neglect suggests they would never put in the time to do it. Nevermind Faction Pride, Horde players were actively shamed for choosing our Faction for the last two years; and by the looks of that that will be continuing in Shadowlands. Nevermind Faction Pride, BfA left our Faction Identity in ruins; several of our Core Racial fantasies deader than the Forsaken are; and left us with a Council oversaturated with underused, underpowered, and laughably underdeveloped characters … in a Hero Centric game. How truly privileged you must be that “Faction Pride” is what you’re worried about.
I get what you’re trying to say but it still seems uncomfortable to minimize Teldrassil as a capital nobody visited, whether or not the statement is true. It was a traditionally pretty zone so there’s always going to be some emotional impact in watching nature get destroyed. That was the point.
Not at all. I simply want the Horde to try and help instead of harm for once. Have Horde druids and shamans help fix darkshore. Have the Horde acknowledge that what they did was wrong, and that they are truly sorry. Have the Horde leave zones like ashenvale voluntarily, and give the Night elves a wide berth. Have the Horde help the Night elves rebuild. Those are a few things that they could do, but there may be more things that they can do without hurting the Horde itself.
I appreciate the answer as it more than most.
My only other questions are, can the Horde ever be redeemed?
As in the Horde no longer needs to repay the Alliance in any way and just go about their business with both factions leaving each other alone. Will it end with Horde leaving Northern Kalimdor and a rebuilt Night Elven society? Or do you think the Horde will forever be in debt to the Alliance?
My argument wasn’t on an emotional level, or a story level, but a Meta level. Outside of the NEs, the Alliance lost absolutely nothing in this expansion that would infringe on future storytelling. Outside of the NEs, none of the Racial Identities of the Alliance races were even besmirched; they remain as is. Outside of their truly absurd Power Fantasy being infringed upon (again, outside of the NEs), the Faction Identity of the Alliance remains intact and whole.
Even the NEs lost no characters of import, and with as hero obsessed as the writing of WoW is that is a HUGE thing. Even Sira and Delaryn couldn’t stay “dead”, and one has already been returned to them for therapy. On a meta level, population numbers again have never mattered. It didn’t matter for any of almost every other race that has gone through one of these near extinction level events in the last 35 years, it wont matter for the NEs. On a META level, the Alliance truly lost very little in BfA … beyond taking a hit to their absurd, absolutist, power fantasy by not being allowed to destroy (or sterlize) an entire PC faction. The same cannot be said for the Horde.
That depends on what happens during shadowlands. But if i’ll be honest I don’t think they they have to make up for Teldrassil, not wholly. It would take generations upon generations to undo the damage. But if the Horde helps the Night elves and then leaves them in peace, while promising and fulfilling the promise of never attacking them again, or encroaching upon their lands, I think that is enough.
That is a very big besides, and you know it.
Nothing the NEs lost would really infringe on future storytelling either btw. Again, on a Meta Level Morg, Population numbers have never mattered. They retain their very solid roster of well developed characters; which is what you need in this game if you want stories and PC racial representation. I would never argue that the NEs and playerbase didn’t take massive hits and losses in BfA, but they truly stand alone on that front for the Alliance as a whole. Every other Alliance race … just took a black eye to their power fantasy.
You certainly weren’t repeatedly shamed for the faction you chose by even the stories writing like the Horde players were. A trend btw that is continuing into SLs by the looks of things. Faction Pride is not something Horde Players really have the luxury of worrying about anymore tbh.
Wow. The fact you even ended it with “I think that is enough” is refreshing considering many are hell bent on Horde destruction.
All I can say is, playing a game where you get to choose one of two factions to play as with both being portrayed as right in their own way, only to have the proverbial rug pulled from under you… Feels great to play Horde man. 
I guess you could say that having one of your races almost exterminated and getting no payback is a hit to our power fantasy, but it’s not really the word i’d use. Also, may I remind you that the worgen lost their second home to the Horde as well?
I get that Bfa was terrible for the Horde, but that can’t dampen my desire for Teldrassil to actually matter going forward.
Again, “Almost Exterminated” does not matter in this game. Also, the BEs didn’t get to play a role in defeating Arthas; and the Forsaken got a bit part, and instead were turned into antagonists for the Faction Conflict. The Darkspear didn’t get a role of revenge against the Naga. The Bilgewater had no part in the downfall of Deathwing. The MU Orcs had no real presence in the downfall of Kil’Jaeden and the Legion. Hard for me to sympathize when Horde races are literally prevented from story relevance against even NPCs that “nearly exterminated our races”.
Hell, more often than not we help kill our own races lol! Truly, someday I hope the Alliance gets to experience the wonders of spending half an expansion killing people on your own side; while needing to be helped by members of the opposing faction to do it. Truly, its a novelty that you can’t understand until you try it.