BFA was the Alliance’s lowest point. We got a playable race of ours almost genocided, a whole zone destroyed (even Tirisfal is accessible in both timelines) and did absolutely nothing to the Horde as payback despite Varian’s promise in MOP.
BFA showed just how weak and gutless the Alliance is. The Alliance definately got the short stick in BFA.
Alliance than proceeds to beat the snot out of the hordes military, in both warfronts and across the majority of the war campaign, but they totally did nothing to the horde.
I don’t even know what to say to that.
Careful, you’re starting to sound like the NEFPA.
Yup, Horde had it SO much better in BfA. 
Some posters will constantly devise excuses to tell you why none of their victories “count”.
I honestly don’t know what Alliance players want from the Horde or writing team.
If you say they were victorious, Azeroth will now follow the Alliance’s ideals and they’ve broken the Horde and claimed peace, they will say it’s not enough.
Then when you add zones like Ashenvale, gold and resources (that Horde probably doesn’t have), co-operation in future missions, it’s still not enough.
Then when you add Sylvanas’ head and her followers for imprisonment, it’s still not enough.
Then when you suggest a total genocide of Horde races so Alliance can then claim all of Azeroth with all Horde players given free forced faction changes to Alliance… suddenly it’s too much and getting silly. Ok.
At this point I know the sweet spot is somewhere in between the last two suggestions. It involves breaking the Horde down for everything they have and are as a faction but not too much that they’re destroyed. Something tells me that still wouldn’t be enough for some though. Hmm 
No, it is enough. The price is the Horde in concept, but not mechanically.
While they’d never say it out loud, the goal for those that expect such is essentially the total sterilization of the Horde on a narrative level; to keep the faction out of their stories.
Some already have.
because…the alliance don´t want to must co-operate in their own zones with the horde?XD
I think Maffu meant that the Horde would offer to give (back) zones like Ashenvale, so there would be no cooperation.
Its interesting, considering just how messed up the Horde was in this expansion. While the Alliance (at least the NEs, the EK Alliance lost very little) may have lost more on a story front, the Horde lost far more on a Meta level. The damage to the character roster, Faction identity, and racial identities is absolutely insane … which will impact what few stories we get going forward.
By the end of BfA none of the architects of the War remain in the Horde. Even the War Profiteer Gallywix is gone. The only core racial leaders left from the 4th war are those two that are least antagonistic to the Alliance. The ARs were hapless passengers for much of these events. The Warchief position was dissolved and the central political authority has been rearranged. Remaining Sylvie loyalists are being rounded up in chains, Sira was returned without strings, and the Horde has committed to helping hunt down Sylvanas. On top of this, while nothing is concrete, the Horde seems unlikely to push the Ashenvale issue … and there is no discussion of Northern EK.
Like … this is a lot. Truly, it may not seem like it is to some Allies, but short of destroying the Faction itself (which mechanically you cannot do in this game, and narratively the Alliance was not in a position to do without great cost) … its a lot of steps in a very short amount of time.
You’re right, I did. The co-operation I mentioned wasn’t zone co-operation, it was future story co-operation, like what the factions did in Wrath, Legion, probably SL etc…
This is what many Ally’s don’t see. Teldrassil and NE lives are the here and now, so that’s what they’re mostly concerned with. Long term though the Horde is irreversibly broken, not even morally grey, just straight up baddies with no foreseeable path to redemption. Saurfang’s rebellion was just a story mechanic to give Horde players an out to say “I wasn’t with her”.
I’m at the point where I think I’d prefer separate stories for the factions. Alliance can be the heroes of the universe defeating Titans and Old Gods. I’d be happy with the Horde taking on more domestic issues.
Like a necromancer in Desolace that’s causing trouble, a dragon in Stonetalon who is disrupting nature by twisting it into horrors or a new Ogre king in Feralas who is creating a powerful Ogre empire.
The end of the expansion could see the Alliance defeating a big bad like the Jailer with a massive death star styled explosion, the inhabitants celebrating and honoring the Alliance with Ally characters giving an inspirational speech.
The Horde side could be after defeating their “little bad”, a Horde character just pats his friend on the back and says “Lok’tar my friend, lok’tar”. There’s something sweet and humbling in that which I like.
TBH, I am in no way invested in the story of SLs beyond seeing if something fun happens from the “maybe” timeskip it implies; seeing Sylvie never blight the lives of the Horde and Forsaken (her greatest victims) again; and hoping vainly that Thrall, Baine, and Vol’jin are allowed personal story arcs to get them where their individual races has needed them to be for ages.
If we’re stuck with only those three who can come back to reality with us, I want to see them get focus that is without question for the betterment of their own characterization. No alterior motives like Baine is subject to constantly. Beyond that though … I wish the Alliance happy hunting with Sylvanas. They deserve her head, let em have it and be done with it.
Beyond that? I want to see Voss, Rokhan, Gazlowe, Geya’rah, Mayla, and Kiro all get developed into the leaders we really need them to be. I want to see Rexxar fully commit to the Horde, Nazgrel return and get the attention he deserves, Rommath to get the spotlight he’s long overdue… I want the Horde people’s domestic and interracial problems dealt with for a chance at some light of a brighter future for them. I could care less about the big bad unless it aids in some of that.
I’ve had both pro-Horde and pro-Alliance friends quit WoW under the circumstances that:
The Horde: hoped there would finally be a justifiable war - If it were morally grey, it would be fighting for your factions ideals and such. But it was just following another Warchief with their own personal goals outside of the Horde (As we have now learned it was simply goals towards the Shadowlands / Jailor / Feeding the Maw).
The Alliance: My Alliance friends, and I included as I wanted to see an intriguing Alliance story on my Ally toon - Were keen to see a complicated story, with a tricky war-complex — Instead of playing the whole "Ah, yes we’re the typical good guy in this repetitive cycle-trope that Blizzard loves to play: Horde bad, Alliance good - Alliance whoop their butts hard on the ground, flaunt their power over them then tell them to be humble … Again. {Sigh} "
It would had been a good twist / something new – to see the Alliance start the war but for a righteous reason, then have it spiral horribly out of control (Accidentally of cause) resulting in mass destruction on the Horde’s side then face the repercussions of the response-aggression without the Horde accepting to here their reasons. THAT would had been morally grey – Obviously not all the way, but much more than the Kodo dung we got this expansion.
Grand Result of BFA: Horde have to facepalm themselves along with having to explain how their not evil they were simply caught off-guard then rolled with the motions, and Alliance roar about their sundered kingdoms, lands and sacred homes the Horde assaulted in defiance of their claim … AGAIN.
Blizzard needs to learn to balance the story to what they promise & show in other sources.
^ For the Horde, this is 
% accurate!
And in some cases for the Alliance too, where it shows complications, conflicts and connections between characters then fail to represent that in the game. For instance, Alleria & Turalyon are torturous savages towards any races of the Horde in the ‘Shadows Rising’ book that even Jaina freakin’ Proudmoore lectures them! Yet in the game they’re seen as all noble.
I’d like to hope things improve and develop for better terms story-wise but I’m starting to lose hope … Here’s to Shadowlands providing us twists & turns for the better 
What would be an example of this? Doesn’t the Alliance being righteous mean that the Horde was being evil again?
The Horde coming across an artifact and knowing what it is they stored it in a magic-proof contained vault. Alliance would have come across another artifact which is linked to that one, which if kept apart could cause immense damage (Focusing Iris Mana-bomb kinda damage). The Alliance believing the part they hold is the bomb and the part the Horde has is the switch, yet out of close proximity the bomb will go off regardless.
The Alliance make way to the vault - distrustful of the Horde: Penetrating & liberating the artifact, then when flying out of the vault (Lets say said-vault wasn’t in the city, but not too far from it either) and whilst over the city flying out to the their ship not too far off the coast they realise they had it the other way around — The Horde had the bomb, hence why it was secured in the vault to minilise damage when it went off but now was on their ship and the switch was still in Stormwind - They have no choice but to discard the bomb as it was growing more unstable by the second on the move, which as they have royalty on the ship could not risk keeping it in hands - which lands in the very heart of the city … Tick, tick - tick … BOOM!
The Horde’s city is devastated and the Alliance believe they had every righteous reason to portray their cause initially.
Now mind you, the cheap story above is just something I came up with on the spot - Blizzard having teams of people, development time and ways they could had orchestrated an idea overtime could be much more efficient. I’m sure given the effort Blizzard could come up with something - Actually, morally grey.
So? What did they get out of it? Apart from defending territory that was already theirs because obviously that doesn’t count.
Besides it doesn’t matter how many battles they win, they didn’t win the war, they got nothing from the Horde to make up for Teldrassil so they are still the losers of BFA.
Anyway the question of who were the superior fighters in BFA is schizophrenic. One moment the Alliance is ‘weeks away from victory’, another moment we need the whole Alliance and Horde rebels to fight Sylvanas’s Horde otherwise it’s game over for the former?
Huh?
They certainly didn’t have it any worse then the Alliance. BFA is by far the lowest the Alliance has ever been. We lost more going into BFA then we gained.
What the hell expansion were you playing cause it sure as hell wasn’t BFA.
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARD disagree. The Alliance got one of their races genocided and got NOTHING to show for it. On a meta level, the Alliance completely lost their pride.
A new eye customization.
(Mind you, the Blood Elves got their’s for free. But Alliance bias, amirite?)
Just because you didn’t like what you got doesn’t mean you didn’t get anything.
Oh? Do tell what we got then?
I don’t know but its a story not a raid. The pont is to have an interesting and exacting story.