Kind of beside the point. Prior to BfA, I have never witnessed Horde players clamoring to burn Teldrassil, whereas the Alliance players were regularly, and enthusiastically, expressing their desire to “take back” Lordearon from the Forsaken. Sure, the Battle of Lordearon had an unsatisfying ending for the Alliance, but there was nothing satisfying about the War of Thorns*, for me and many others at least. I refused to take part, and I skipped the Darkshore Warfront as well.
This so-called “fist pump moment” that the Alliance players are so envious of involves destroying a city you never actually wanted to destroy. They don’t get to pick their target. That wouldn’t be the experience we got. Thunderbluff is probably the only city the Alliance would feel bad about destroying. And if the Alliance are so keen on getting the experience we got, then that’s the city they should destroy.
*Yes, there were some who loved it. I remember like five posters, mostly with Forsaken avatars, cheering the burning of the tree. Some of the angry Alliance posters these days act like all of the Horde was cheering, but I remember a different story. Most Horde posters were angry and confused when we saw that it was Sylvanas who burned the tree, and that that event happened before Lordearon. We didn’t want to be villains again.
The Pandaren volunteered to help the Alliance, and only thought better of it after they realized they were helping build a war base. Its speculated they were kept working against their will, but the dialogues you get from freeing them almost make it seem like they were too polite to actually speak up to go home instead. Its not as if they’re wearing chains or anything (though maybe they are, its been a long time since I did that quest).
The Alliance player encounters no evidence of forced labor. He encounters a captain that was overcome by the Sha to the point of not being able to command. He sees nothing of the chain of command necessary to be able to pull such an event off.
If you don’t see that as a contradiction. Well, more power to you.
A little yes and a little no. Problem is blizzard has gone ham and rewrote the story to make the Alliance this Bastion of Lawful Stupid Overdrive around Cataclysm and MoP. Races like the Night elves and Worgen have had their histories, culture, and anesthetics paved over to make them more presentable to the “baby’s first fantasy setting” crowd.
I want my savage, man-slaying, chaotic wood elves. Not the purple high elf floozies that throw out their culture to be more “human” Blizzard has been forcing them to be for the grognards.
Just like I and others want our savage, more beast than man worgen that we were promised. But you know, can’t waste that infinite resource known as Human Potential. All must serve God King Anduin in the end
Blizzard really did the Kaldorei and Worgen dirty and I will always be forever salty about that.
On the other hand I can’t help but think “savagery” used in the terms of the NEs kind of comes with this weird expectation that they just be allowed to walk all over the entire Kalimdor Horde. Which … honestly? I kind of don’t get where this expectation came from. Yes, the NEs are powerful, but even the WoTA doesn’t quite portray them to the extent that some people on here seem to inherently expect. Or the War of the Shifting Sands. Or the War of the Satyr. Even WC3 didn’t portray them that way either.
They are strong, they were never “invalidate all other races strengths” strong.
I get what your saying, and it shouldn’t be that way, but the way Blizzard has done it since WoW is that the Kalimdor Horde have just walked all over the Night Elves and made them look like total chumps. They constantly get their teeth kicked in and never get to be the badass savage warriors that Grom actually respected.
I mean, we’re talking about a race who was allied with dragons, mountain giants, chimaera, and Wild Gods. They should be able to walk all over a bunch of orcs with ease. And I’m not even a fan of the Night Elves(I mean, there certain things I do like about the race), and I still find how blizzard treated them over the years to be dirty and wrong.
I take it back. Those who say that the Alliance player doesn’t interact with the airfield are right.
The existence of an Alliance Forced Labor camp is an example of something that only appears in Horde content, but isn’t directly contradicted by Alliance leveling.
This seems a bit generous. Even during the WotA the NEs were getting ran bloody until Jarod convinced their more conservative (racist) members to actually start recruiting outside help. And even then, things didn’t really start turning in their favor into the Wild Gods (a group they did not expect) and Aspects came in and handled a LOT of the heavy lifting.
The Wild Gods have never in their entire history involved themselves in what they believe to be mortal affairs. Even Cenarius only got as involved in WC3 because he sensed the Fel Taint in the Orcs believed they were a precursor to a Legion invasion. The Aspects, especially in their current state, were even less likely to get involved. The Stone Giants also find themselves only really getting involved in NE affairs when there is some massive environmental disaster.
None of these races are the NEs pets. They aren’t accessories to the NEs. They aren’t weapons to be pointed where they will. If the WoT had just been what it had appeared to be on the surface (a conflict between two mortal political powers), it remains very unclear whether any of them would get involved. And this also doesn’t play into the apparent “savagery” of the NEs … if anything it suggests that their absurdly powerful Allies is were a lot of that expected strength lies.
I think power and savagery are two different concepts and can be discussed separately. I always figured that when people wanted the night elves to be more savage, they wanted to be portrayed in a way that would make the horde go “holy crap and you call us the monsters?” But that never seems to happen.
Yeah, it is a bit generous. But I guess my point was they and the Night elves did interact often enough to warrant them lending a helping hand to the Night elves when they saw fit too.
As far as the whole Savage Elf thing goes? I never saw where people got that notion from. And I agree with you, truth be told. I think a lot of people took the Wild Gods and how savage beings like Ashamane was, and sorta started applying those qualities to the Night Elves.
Some do, yes. Others ask if this means they can go home, and others outright state they’re going home. There is a variety of responses, but nothing in the quest text, dialogues, etc… suggests the Pandaren were slaves. Even the Horde questlog states they’re indentured, not enslaved.
Honestly, I stopped identifying as a member of the Horde years and years ago. However, I have always identified as Forsaken and my leader is Sylvanas. For better or for worse I chose my side long ago and I am willing to see how it inevitably plays out.
Long story short, I don’t really care about the Horde, haven’t in quite some time.
Did they? Truly think about the WotA? About Nordrassil? About the blessings of Teldrassil? These were essentially the Wild Gods and Aspects being dragged into cleaning up what could easily be claimed as “A Kaldorei Mess”. As much as they try to distance themselves from it, it is true the WotA was the Kaldorei really cleaning up their own mess of a Queen. The cost to do so being 80 percent of Azeroth’s landmass. Nordrassil and its blessings weren’t a reward to the NEs, they were a lock. A seal to prevent another sundering from Illidan’s decision to create the second WoE. Teldrassil’s blessings only came to prevent that tree from becoming a festering mess again.
Even the War of the Shifting Sands was initially sparked by Staghelm’s son treading into Ahn Qiraj and accidentally waking up the Qiraji (and subsequently C’Thun). And while the NE’s were able to handle it for a time, ultimately once their lines broke … it was the Dragonflights that had to come in and turn the tide to lock up that problem. See a pattern?
I wish character’s like this would actually have been kicked out of the Horde and made hostile. If people want to support Sylvanas after what she did when the rest of the Horde wants to change, then they should have to suffer the consequences. Instead now you get to support Sylvanas, be evil, and have no consequences for it.
Like you could still go to neutral places, but any Horde city? You get attacked on sight.
