dammit sarm, you have betrayed me for the last time.
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Wait…crap.
So you’re saying that when I made an alliance alt to see Jaina’s storyline, I created the conditions in which her storyline played out that affected me on my horde character in the first place, which is what prompted me to play the alliance alt to begin with? That’s a closed time loop!
…That also means I have no culpability for my actions because it was all predestined and I had no ability to make better choices. Ergo, the horde is innocent of all wrongdoing in BFA.
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Timey Wimey grass different on other side but mostly the same stuff 
Mind blown man! Mind totally blown! 
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And I like the Night Elves. If you truly want the full Horde experience, you don’t get to have a say in who you attack.
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I mean, not to point out the obvious but any war between the Factions will inevitably land harder on the NEs of Kalimdor and the Forsaken of EK. They are to core power of the opposing Faction, on their respective continents. So, its not as though its all that personal. Even Sylvie was just kind of aiming for large scale casualties on every side. Ultimately, if Bizz could every write a nuanced story, there is a logic in securing “your primary continent” before aiming for the opposition’s.
Event that are never referred to in any way for the other side are not canon. Blizzard has these all the time and they never make it into lore. And so much of it is contradictory, that it couldn’t ever do so.
But a lot of this is people demanding that Alliance content be made lore over Horde content. I mean, accept that all the civilians in Astranaar were massacred by someone unknown, you also have to accept the Saurfang was giving orders to protect civilians. And you also have to accept thing like the Alliance having kidnapped Pandarens and forced them into labor camps.
That’s the thing, though. I accept all three of those examples rather easily. Saurfang giving orders to protect civilians has no bearing on whether or not those were actually followed through (and if I remember right, the quest you’re talking about takes place at the base of Teldrassil itself, not Astranaar). Alliance really did conscript pandaren to help build a base in Jade Forest and vice versa with the horde. And the civilians in Astranaar died. The only thing that changes is the manner in which it happened, and while it’s theoretically possible they could have died from any number of causes, I think the simplest explanation is that they were simply killed by the horde as they moved through behind the horde player.
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I should be noted, such things are often considered as the subjective, bias, and potential inaccurate about of one side (even though many of them are factually contradictory). If you want to say that the Alliance believes the Horde killed civilians, OK. If want to say that they “objectively” did so? No.
I do fully accept this… what are you talking about? I said that the Horde comes through and protects the civilians, or at least is given the option to, and then no matter what choice the Horde player picks, once they leave those civilians get killed by some other Horde members.
My guess is it is the Forsaken/Sylvanas loyalists.
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Someone horde side killed them. It’s not complicated. I don’t why we’re making this so.
If you accept all that stuff, you still have factual contradiction. The Alliance player goes to the same air field and doesn’t see a forced labor camp. And even if you accept some head canon about how they happened at different time or involved unknown parties never referred to elsewhere, the stories get disjointed and inconsistent.
And Blizzard has a long history of simply ignoring these things.
Indeed, Saurfang gives no actual orders to Lorash or the Horde player not to kill any civilians at Astranaar, and certainly does not give any orders to protect the civilians at Astranaar.
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Don’t the alliance have their own version where they deal with a separate area? It’s been years so I don’t recall (I remember players commenting about warlocks with demons holding children hostage). But even if you do end up there, one of the horde player quests at the air field is to send those pandaren home. I think it’s easily rationalized that they’re gone by the time the alliance player goes there.
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Precisely. It’s not complicated at all.
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Not sure what you mean. The Alliance War of Thorns quest chain is the “Alliance version”
Ah, I thought you were talking about the MoP intro quest chain where alliance forces conscripted pandaren to build an air base there. I didn’t know that story beat was done a second time.
Sarm is talking about how the Horde player quests through the Strongarm Airstrip in the Jade Forest while the Alliance player quests through Twinspire Keep in the Jade Forest.
Both are canon.
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Well, the Jade forest acts much like the War of Thorns. Each side quests through the same area with contradictory stories. In MoP you had the feature that the events didn’t always make sense. I mean, you have Garrosh, who in lore is known to hate warlocks, send an “army of warlocks” as a main force. But then it let the Alliance player fight all sorts of particularly evil, Legion like, demons (even though many of them never been seen, before or since, with a warlock).
The Jade Forest doesn’t have any contradicting storylines. The Alliance player never goes to the Strongarm Airstrip and the Horde player never goes to Twinspire Keep, so there’s not even different tellings of those stories there to create any contradictions.
Garrosh also had no problem sending people he didn’t like to die in war, like he tried to do to the Forsaken, so a Warlock soldier before he started purging Warlocks far later is also not a contradiction.
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The Horde player finds the slaves at the airstrip.
Garrosh has never tolerated warlocks long enough to let them form an army. Nor has he been willing to use them in any way. If you think he would let them form their own army (even if such a thing has never appeared in lore anwhere), well, more power to you.