Is BFA really that bad?

if you’re paying to play a game which you hate, then i guess the jokes on you.

why would it matter which content you’re playing?
you still choose to log in.
nobody is forcing you.

i spend more time in old content than i do in new content… it doesn’t mean the game is bad, i still get my moneys worth… and apparently you do, too.

probably the part about classic.
unless you’re playing on classic servers, which you’re not… (because you mentioned locking experience which can’t be done in classic) you are not playing classic content.
1-60 is cata content. :wink:

it’s LITERALLY the point of gaming.
…a way to kill time.

pls.
i’ve got 18 or 19 120s… you’ve got… 3?

(or are you going to tell us that you’re talking about “your other account”… surely you wouldn’t choose to maintain multiple accounts if you hate the game so much?) :roll_eyes:

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Time enjoyed is not time wasted!

People are complaining about things in a game that they have enjoyed for years.

Complaining about aspects of things in something you have enjoyed for a long time is not hate but a desire to see things be better again .

Those that truly hate the game have already left . Those that care for it will speak up . Those that say it is just a hive mind mentality of a minority are just as much of a minority and also do not speak for the majority.

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It is… every class is good at WQs and LFR. Every class is good at “RP’ing”.

What do we tell the OP when Resto Shamans are routinely declined for M+? Every melee besides Rogue and DH have a terrible time getting into M+ as well.

Every single expansion has been hated by people in the community in one way or another. Overall some people just don’t like change. Now with that, BFA added in a bunch of systems that people don’t want/like, yet it seems like the devs or some one high up thinks these systems are good. It can be compared to the grind for you weapon in Legion(but on a larger scale), yet some people seem to think that expansion(Legion) was so good(which I’ll agree it was), but ignore how much complaining there was in Legion until the last half of it(seems like people forget the Broken Shore once a week quest line).

Overall my opinion I’d rate bfa a 4/10. I raided in Legion and had a blast, but haven’t touched any in bfa because none of the raids seem interesting and all look boring(except the M.O.T.H.E.R. fight). Same goes for the dungeons. Really this feels like WoD, but with more fluff. Still I’ve been finding things to do. Leveling a shaman for the first time and having a blast. I still do current content things, but visions I only bother with them if the ones that you can get mounts from are up.

EDIT: Another thing about some of the grinds, you can tell that these things aren’t that popular because Mods are starting to make posts/polls about them. I don’t remember that happening in any other expansion, but I could be wrong.

For a new player it is a fine game honestly.
Especially now where azerite traits and AP come for free and are a non issue.
Also the people complaining in the forum are extremely contradictory. They are just mad that their expectations towards a videogame weren’t met and spread anger here since… forever.

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Ion…is that you?

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PvP is in the worst state I have ever seen. The only season that is even comparable to the last 3 is season 5 during wrath, but even then the expansion had one of the game’s best seasons later on in season 8. Some of this corruption stuff is comparable to how broken death knights were, tbh.

There is a reason that participation for BFA seasons after s1 have been the lowest in the history of the game. It’s just complete garbage. Shame too because Legion wasn’t really that bad and it’s like they learned nothing from the things that were bad in Legion.

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It’s not as bad.
Hating on Blizzard in 2020 is very hip so of course everyone jumps on the bandwagon; then you see them spending hundreds of dollars to attend Blizzcon.

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“Most of this community has lost the ability to think for themselves, so they are stuck in this hivemind mentality that the game sucks. It’s really weird.”

Lol, or they actually played the game and thus came to the conclusuion that its not interesting. because its not. Almost most of my friendlist has said deuces to this game. One of my friends most recently logged on just to remind himself that this game sucks then shortly logged off, at the end of the day some of us are hoping that the game will become great again.

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For relevant context, I played since day 1 of WoW but returned to it in December after an 8 year hiatus.

BFA is extremely fun and addicting for the first couple months. Then it becomes a set of daily and weekly chores to check off your list that you log in for to get bombarded with gear in the hope that you get the right RNG for one of them to be an upgrade. Many of the chores are also just gates to more chores. And the way this expansion is designed, most of the chores have to be done on each of your characters if you want to keep up on more than just your main.

It’s sad because I feel like I have to log in everyday to do my one hour or so of chores, do some random WQs, run at least one high level M+ key a week, but then the stuff I want to do is limited. I can only rain with my guild 2-3 times a week, which I love. I enjoy Visions but you can only do a certain number of them a week and they are gated behind chores. Keys are fun but stressful so I do them in small doses.

Things enfranchised players seem to really dislike about this expansion:

  1. That you’re more or less forced to farm daily and weekly quests in 1-2 zones if you want to maintain an up-to-date character.

  2. The amount of stuff gated behind rep farming.

  3. Due to corruption (and, to some extent, RNG socketing), gear can be 40-50 item levels lower yet still be a significant upgrade. I wear a 415 ilvl World Quest reward ring over all the 460-465s I have because the 415 has a socket and has one of my spec’s best corruptions. It’s over 1k DPS better than any of those other rings that are 45-50 ilvls above it.

  4. Essences are not account-bound. You have to grind for most rank 3 essences, some take quite a bit of time and effort to get, and you have to do it all over again for each character.

  5. The storyline has been…non-engaging and disjointed, to say the least. Also how many times are we going to have “alliance and horde fight, make up, then fight again” type stories? The N’Zoth thing was cool and had a lot of potential, but it was kinda just thrown in to a dying expansion and not given the attention and effort it deserved.

  6. The PvP experience is seemingly at an all time low, and PvP has been highly de-emphasized.

  7. Improving gear is highly RNG-based. There really isn’t “BiS” for most slots because it just depends on rolling the right corruption and a socket (8.3 added the much-needed ability to add sockets, but it takes a lot of farming and most players aren’t at that point yet). Patch 8.2 didn’t have corruption but gear had a chance to randomly upgrade by certain ilvls. As such, gear is certainly plentiful, but getting better gear is generally a crapshoot. It can be not at all clear if an item is an upgrade, and properly simming your character is therefore necessary for players wanting to do high-end content. We have extra gear rolls and gambling from the Azerite gear vendor that adds even more to the randomness/gambling feeling.

  8. Azerite traits are non-interactive. They’re just stat boosts and procs. Essences were originally like this as well but got fixed, though minor essences still fall under this category. I think people are tired of everything being proc-based stat increases in one form or another.

  9. Class pruning. Specs within the same class are highly specialized and differentiated with little overlap in abilities, and little-to-no opportunity for hybrid specs or individualization (such as with the old talent trees). Also each spec relies on just a couple spells/abilities. E.g., frost mages don’t have any fire spells. This results in boring and repetitive rotations, and relatively few buttons you need to press. Though people seem to forget how early WoW was with some classes spamming the same ability or two over and over, even if we did have access to more abilities.

  10. Professions have been described as “a joke.” I disagree slightly, but they certainly aren’t super important. As a tailor I generally don’t even use the 470 gloves and pants with guaranteed sockets that I crafted because they don’t have corrupted effects. Unless I’m minimizing corruption for whatever reason (questing, tough fights where survivability is more important, etc.). It seems like alchemy is the only in-demand crafting profession due to consumables.

All that said, I still enjoy the game. I think people should just focus on what they like the most and work on doing that as much as possible, even if it takes doing chores to get there. Makes it more rewarding in my opinion.

no, just people don’t know understand that games are entertainment for leisure time, not jobs.

the play-ability is pretty darn good and the lore and storytelling are above most other games.

it’s a good investment for most of us in comparison to other activities which are more expensive, inconvenient or unhealthy.

blizz wants $ 15 a month after $ 40 for the game and would like us to shop with them occasionally.

works for me…

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News at 11, people are idiots. BFA isn’t the most perfect gaming experience ever delivered but its not even close to as bad as people whine about.

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BFA would be better for me if there were PvP vendors. And if it were alt-friendly. I LOVE playing my priest, but I have a monk and a demon hunter that I would love to gear up, but there are just not enough hours in the day.

Thank you for remembering this. I so much miss the GCD as it existed in Legion. :frowning:

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Its bad for pvpers at least, based on participation in competitive pvp its terrible for pvpers. IDK about pvers, cant be too bad since the game is designed by a pve raider.

Personal opinion? Yes. It’s bad. Worse than Warlords, to my tastes.

Before I go into negatives, a few ever-green positives: Warcraft’s world art and soundtrack teams do absolutely incredible work. When I look around at all the scenery I see so many places I want to go to and explore, places I wish could be real, and places that I’m glad aren’t, and all of them have music scores that set the perfect emotional tone to match their visuals.

Warcraft also remains the only game where you get real beastly races as playables. Name me one other MMO where you can play as a werewolf, a fox, an orc, a goblin, a bear, or a cow. Isn’t FF-whatsit’s most animal looking race basically 'roided out dudes in stage costumes from CATS? The variety of appearances and cultural backgrounds/character archetypes players can choose from in WoW is unmatched. It makes for such interesting lenses to view the aforementioned amazing world through.

Unfortunately that’s where I start to run out of good things to say about the current expansion. I began playing in Warlords, an expansion which many agree was the worst in Warcraft’s 15 year history, but I have to say that for my part BFA beats it out for that spot.

My reasoning, put as succinctly as possible, Warlords had very little content but it was all good. BFA has tons of content, but it all mediocre.

To expand on that. while Warlords certainly did suffer for the content that was cut from it but what we did get was quality stuff. Those raids and dungeons were a ton of fun, and getting alts up to snuff wasn’t too bad thanks to a crafting system that gave gear more staying power, being upgradable with crafted tokens. Not to mention the armor tier sets which all looked amazing. I wiled away hours in Ashran and Tanaan and HFC pretty happily and had 3 playably-geared alts when it ended.

BFA on the other hand? The questing in the zones was good, but as soon you hit cap there’s just too many things to do. HoA, Azerite Armor, Essences, War Campaign, Islands, Warfronts, World Quests, Zone events (Battle for Naz) and so on. It’s overwhelming and the Heart of Azeroth and Essences in particular are such alt-unfriendly things that I’ve written off touching any of my other characters. Add to that? Armor sets were homogenized per armor class in this expansion. A Demon hunter looks just like a Rogue looks just like a Druid looks just like a Monk. Frankly, all of these homogenized sets lack the decisive commitment to a theme that old class tier sets had. Not a single one has clicked with me to make me want to go into the raids, and the dungeon sets? Well, they’re dungeon sets, like most expansions. All recolors of a single design per armor class, same as the raid sets.

With that said I have very little to actually make me WANT to log in more than a couple of hours a week at this point, just doing a bare minimum to keep somewhat up to date. I long for the beautiful armor sets and cool mounts and weapons we had in Warlords and Legion that kept me eagerly engaged, that motivated me to play different characters.

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it only really becomes an issue if you want to play alts at a semi competitive level. the amount of things you have to repeatedly do before they are ready is a bit over kill. one Main and one alt is about as far as one can go before the grind starts to take its toll keeping more of them up to date on all the content before time runs out.

over all its fine if you give up trying to 100% everything on all characters and only focus on 1 or 2.

the corruption system is interesting. even more so imo are the people getting away with/ managing 79 corruption. certainly makes Dungeon key streams/ recordings more interesting to watch.

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First and foremost, howdy. Glad you’re having fun and hope you stick around. More the merrier and all that. Gonna get kind of lengthy with this post - will TL;DR it. But a couple of things first:

  1. “Current Expansion is garbage, expansion two expansions ago was way better.”
  2. WoW players generally react negatively to change.
  3. Blizzard re-invents the wheel often.
  4. Grinding and timegating are always controversial topics for WoW players.

There is always a crowd of people during each expansion that will claim “the current expansion is a complete and utter dumpster fire, the dev team has no idea what they’re doing, and the expansion two expansions ago CLEARLY was better and the height of the game.” These people will tell you that the game is going to die “soon™” or that another MMO will finally kill WoW. This is something that’s been said since 2008 and probably before and will always be said. So buckle up: you’ll see this in Shadowlands too.

But one thing folks tend to agree on is the cycle of quality for expansions. Granted, this is all entirely subjective, but the general pattern has been that after the Wrath of the Lich King expansion, there’s been this pattern of a good expansion being followed by a less-good expansion, followed by a good expansion, and so on. *“Wrath was spectacular, but Cata felt like a weak follow up. Mists was a better expansion than Cata, but then Warlords was way worse than Mists. Legion was way better than Warlords, so BfA will be worse than Legion.”

Every expansion has flaws. Sometimes some glaring ones that can really tarnish the experience, but as far as features go and the overall feel, Legion was leagues better than Warlords, which…heh, man, you missed nothing during Warlords. Seriously. Because nothing happened. You want to know what a real bad expansion looks like? Imagine if instead of getting Ny’alotha this patch, you got a selfie camera toy with twitter integration, a few updates to the mission table, and that’s all. Imagine if Blizzard gave you that and said “Yep, our work here is done. Good content patch, guys. Bravo.” Because that’s how things were in WoD. So Legion was the good expansion that was loved by many, but given Blizzard’s previous track record, lots of folk were preparing for the worst. Me personally? I was concerned, but when I could play the full version of the game, I was surprised. I was expecting something along the lines of Warlord’s levels of bad, but I still had things to log on and play.

Me, I think it’s alright, but part of that is because I’m playing more casually these days. I usually log in, do my emissary, some other World Quests that are along the way to my goal (love doing things on the road), some dailies, a mythic or two, and then log off. For the player who’s more hardcore, there’s a bit more bogging things down. Like it’s been said in the thread already, the systems get really messy when you try to perfect a character. You have to work on progressing your neck, then there’s getting your right Azerite traits. That used to be it, but then essences came out and while some of those effects were great, you have to have the right rank of the essence which can take weeks to get. Per character. Toss the cloak progression on that and some people feel there’s “too much to do.” It can be a little overwhelming if you’re trying to be your very best.

Here’s something a friend of mine told me when we were discussing the neck grind: I play the game more casually. For my neck’s level, I’ve never been too far behind my friends in regards of what level it is. Now that it goes up continuously, there’s a bit of pressure to keep progressing it, because when you’re fighting a boss and you’re down to the wire, nothing is worse than wiping at 1% , because maybe, just maybe if your DPS was higher, you would have gotten a boss kill, and that’s a pretty crap feeling. To get it that high though, the game requires you to spend hours upon hours each week to have the optimal neck and azerite level. It used to be that all that mattered was the gear that you got from dungeons and raids. There wasn’t any additional pressure to work on progressing something other than getting the highest item level, so the game requires a lot more work now than it once did, and for some people who want to push the highest level content? That can be a major buzzkill.

Some systems are alright at least. It used to be that if you wanted some sweet effects from your gear, you had to raid and hope that your tier set pieces would drop and that you’d win the roll/be given the gear, so you were at the mercy of RNG. Azerite gear was meant to replace that, so now you have a broader selection of options to choose from when picking perks, and it’s not exclusive to raiding. M+ can be just as rewarding.

But speaking of RNG, Corruption. Hooooooo boy corruption. I like the whole balance between risk and reward concept, but the fact that corruption is awarded randomly and so much of your DPS can come from sheer luck isn’t cool.

Essences were a good way to spice things up, but the way to get rank-ups is a bit lengthy. Not so bad the first time, and there is a sense of accomplishment and progression when you finally get that rank 3…but when you realize you have to do it again? That’s when it should really be account-bound.

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ya i think wod was better then BFA.
even if they had a whole patch dedicated to selfie cam… id still take that over BFA unfriendly alt grind and repetitive dailies.
Leading us into shadowlands with this terrible taste might make it a toxic expirence if its not perfect.

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