Ion's Thoughts on Permanent Water Elemental Removal

What facts are there to refute? That according to logs, the only classes who’s pet damage is high enough to make your threshold is BM and Demo? Of which Demo’s permanent pet doesn’t even make that threshold. You’re deflecting and just repeating “I’m right, you’re wrong. I wont believe anything you tell or show me because it doesn’t fit my narrative.”. I’ve changed opinions from proof, I.E. Destro no longer using GoS. I’ve shown you in those logs that the only specs who have damage from pets that match your 50% number, are BM and Demo. And, if you remove the pet from any of the other specs, they only lose 9% for warlocks, and 15% for Survival. Course, you’re going to say I’m wrong because Survival needs pet for CD. And as true as that is, if that were not the case, it still would only lose 15% dps without the pet damage. Thus rendering the pet irrelevant to how the class plays. You cannot, when defining things, pick and choose what is and isn’t defined by it without a proven difference. Besides your own subjective thoughts, which this whole debate has been boiling down to you not thinking the class was a pet class, so it wasn’t. According to the Devs, it now isn’t, however, it was before 10.1.5 since Cataclysm according to the Devs that made it so back in Cataclysm.

Seriously, Frost used to be about shattering enemies. Lining up those procs to deal massive damage. Now it’s about hoping your luck holds out and you can deal that massive damage. Case in point, throughout every expansion, including WotLK, the soft cap was a thing easily reached half way through each expansion, until BfA. Where they went from making Frost about shattering, into a mage with higher crit chance on procs. Never again letting the player save up their procs to ensure they punish any who stand against them. No, before you say it, 80% chance doesn’t not equal ensured.

No, that was not a deflection. That was an example. Example used to show the difference between current and previous devs.

1 Like

The facts you seem to not be able to understand.

End of the day you’re wrong.

Facts please, not opinions. Citation needed.

Permanent water elemental was removed.

For the most idiotic reason, and if same logic is applied, the same reason it was made permanent to begin with.

Says the guy posting on his classic character. Yes we understand. That’s why the thread was made. And the thread explains in great detail how flawed the data used to delete bubbles was (like how badly they rigged things in favor of LW to justify said deletion, with many people who want bubbles back explaining why they were using LW). Also the thread explains the great irony in the anti-bubbles crowd accepting the fact they MUST summon bubbles. IMO this is the worst iteration of bubbles because you can’t even resummon it if it dies. Like for all the whining about pet problems, this is literally the worst iteration of bubbles possible to date (with the biggest potential DPS loss if something goes wrong with the pet). Only public PTR DF beta was worse where its auto would lock if water jet was on autocast. How that even started happening, who knows, because the devs never seemed to care about bubbles.

2 Likes

Because posting on my 7/9 char changes anything?

They don’t need to justify its deletion.

You mean the minority?

Most people don’t care about bubbles

That’s your opinion.

Most people are glad it was removed.

Move on.

The fight continues for those that lost their companion.

1 Like

There is no fight. It’s over.

Are you the dev that made the decision with rigged data? Is that what you’re admitting?

1 Like

No. Is that an actual question?

I know it’s hard for you but the people who liked ele are the minority.

You’re speaking with such confidence it made me wonder.

Are you sure?
We’ve noted multiple times lw outperformed we for a long while now. The few patches we was meta had nothing to do with we but with bone chilling you took in lw’s place (also i called this out in the beta feedback that the talent tree setup was an indirect nerf/made water elemental less competitve).

No one seems to be bothered by the fact they’re forced to use it and this iteration os markedly worse in terms of management if something goes wrong.

I mean all this shows they never really gave it a chance and most mages don’t actually oppose it. I’ll beleive it if they bring it back and have it outperform the lw by a large margin. If there’s more than 50% of mages running lw after a whole expansion like that in frost i’ll believe it.

That being said: i’m really curious what data they pulled and if they included pvp and ow players. I saw lots of ow players running it and plenty of pvp players lamented its removal. Frost mages were rare but the few i saw running around had it more often than not. I’m also curious if they actually checked how often the spec was used by the player: people playing sparkle thrower would spec into lw whenever they tested frost even if they had no intention to play it. All in all they need to share alot more data points so the picture is clearer. I mean they didn’t even call out lw was stronger so i’m not sure i trust their due diligence.

If they only included high end pve that’d be awful. I’m fine if i’m wrong but it doesn’t check out for me when water elemental was so strong in bgs that even a newb like me could tell it was good. And it’s also a glaring issue if they ignored an entire secton of the community when making the assesment.

Because I have an actual understanding of the game.

Ele was supposed to be less competitive, It was never meant to be a completive raid or mplus talent.

Most mages oppose it,

OW and stubborn players were the only people that used it. Even in PVP LW was the default choice.

No they dont, they removed it as a pet, its gone. They dont have to do anything.

Thats what the game should be balanced and factored around.

You are.

Whats funny is you are actually wrong. LW has been the default for arenas and BGs especially during SL with necrolord frost.

out world players should honestly be ignored.

Source? I could believe in arenas but in bgs an aoe ranged snare is really strong. I saw it fork over the opposing team multiple times and multiple mages who do bgs came here complaining about it.

Totally. It’s not like they’re paying customers or tons of features have been added specifically for them in df.

O wait you’re wrong.

And if the devs agreed with you modera and felstorm shouldn’t have had pets, there shouldn’t have been water elementals running around my class hall, it should have never been an option to begin with and jaina should have only spammed rof during bfa.

It’s actually terrible design to underpower talents that play specifically to lore. It should have been the opposite if they couldn’t balance it.

You would be wrong, LW was taken by players above 1800 The damage gain over a single snare wasnt worth.

Not sorry that people choosing to limit their play to the most basic stuff where buffing/nerfing doesnt actually matter shouldnt have a say on balancing in this game

Can you link your source? I want to be sure you’re not conflating arena and bg players.

An rpg is more than a dps meter. You should feel depressed reading this. This is a prime example why whiny mythic raiders shouldn’t be deciding class features. They don’t understand fun if it isn’t a spreadsheet.

Murlok IO during the season

Considering I played frost to 1900. Your main damage windows came from necrolord frost

The buffs/nerfs arent going to affect open world players where it actually matters.

This is a reach considering

So why force them to play in an optimized way?

See above.

How do i access murlok io’s historical data? I’m not finding it, just stuff on the current season. It looks like you’re just asking me to take you on your word.

They arent.

Above is a reach because no one is forced to do anything.

I dont care what you believe or not. As someone that played then I know what I am saying is true.

Just watch any AWC match with Wealthyman playing Frost in SL