See, again with the “I’m right, you’re wrong I wont hear none of it.”
Proof has been handed to you on a golden platter time and time again and you just wont listen. You’re deflecting the point by going into semantics. You make descriptor after descriptor and again and again it’s shown to prove my point.
Because in this instance I am right. If I wasn’t right you wouldn’t be trying so hard to prove me wrong and dancing around the points.
In order for proof to be handed to me you have to provide information backing that.
You have presented zero information aside from your feelings.
Facts don’t care about your feelings.
Exactly.
I have, and you haven’t. So, we’re stuck in a stand-still.
Imagine lying about presenting facts.
I linked logs. You have linked nothing.
There is no standstill. I’m right you’re not. You’re the one that needs to get over it and move on.
Are you talking about the Frost logs?
I’m talking about all the logs.
I have data backing up my points.
You have biased opinions backing yours.
End of the day you’re wrong and Blizz removed permanent ele. Therefor Blizz is stating that it’s not a pet class.
But it was one.
I linked multiple class logs to you showing the difference between pet specs and non pet specs.
Either way
Yes, and I never said those particular specs weren’t a pet spec, unless proven otherwise by your asinine damage threshold. You then still stated, even under that ruling, that something could still be. So I agreed, which included Frost. Again, logs from 10.1.5 onward showing 3% aren’t actual facts to your argument on whether Frost was or wasn’t. Unless we’re discussing this from two points of view. You being post-rework, and me being pre-rework. Of which, I’ve shown literal years worth of data.
Why are you lying? You haven’t shown any data. All you have said was “trust me bro it was like this back then “
That’s not a source.
You yourself stated that elemental only attributed to about 15% damage which isn’t significant if that was even true. By your own statements it’s not a pet spec.
PS Blizz doesn’t agree with you.
Then you can argue Survival, Desto, and Affliction are not pet specs.
I literally linked the Water Elemental history.
They don’t agree with players. Hence Shadowlands Covenant. Sorry, didn’t mean to example on ya, almost forgot how high that flies over your head. Let me try this again, they don’t agree with players, there’s plenty of reddit posts, wowhead comments, and there were plenty of “please balance” forum threads in here to prove it.
No you can’t. Removing those pets affects those specs a lot more than removing the ele. I explained that and you still aren’t understanding.
You linking your opinion isn’t linking a source.
So desperate to make a point you’re trying to compare frost to actual game design which are different departments?
Man you really are desperate.
On one, Survival, and even then that’s semantic. Click a button so their CD works without a pet and now they can function without it. Other than, you know, losing 15% of their damage which you’ve proudly, and unprovedly(not linking logs pre-10.1.5), said was the percentage of the Elemental. Destro and Afflic go out of their way to remove their pets, and actually function like a full class not relegating their cc to a third party, so they hold no argument either.
Then, if you really want to get nitty, gritty, Demonology would only lose about 25% of their damage if they didn’t use their permanent pet. Your logs proved that too.
Like I said, I’m sorry, I forgot examples go right over your head.
Me linking site that shows you the changes to the Elemental each patch over the course of WoW’s history is my opinion? Wow, no wonder your trying to make this debate go in circles. You really are desperate to be right.
You’re actually out of touch. Removing survivals pet is not the same as removing frosts water elemental. The sheer fact that you think it is shows you don’t understand this game at all.
And no it’s not the same as Aff is the only spec that uses glyph of sac and when both specs do that they lose survivability.
It’s actually 80% not 15% based on the logs I linked.
Again you haven’t linked anything. So yes making claims is your opinion when you have zero evidence to back it.
And again
Blizzard doesn’t agree with you that it’s a pet spec.
Misinterpreting permanent and temporary pets doesn’t help your argument. Felguard is the permanent pet, Imps and the rest are temporary pets. Since you aren’t aware of how Demo works(Even though you claim without proof you’ve played it at Mythic level), I’ll enlighten you. Through their rotation, and you can check Icy Veins and other guides on this, they cast spells such as Hand of Gul’dan and Call Dreadstalkers. Now, I know your reading comprehension is a little lacking so I’ll be the bigger man and explain. Hand of Gul’dan summons 1-3 Imps, depending on the amount of shards used. After a few seconds, that set of Imps despawn(shortness of length of varies with talent choice) to be replaced by the next set summoned with another cast of Hand of Gul’dan. Next, Demo locks will cast Call Dreadstalker. This spell summons two Dreadstalkers to attack the target for 12 seconds, after which they despawn. Now, I don’t know if you are aware, but anything that despawns or goes away after X amount of time less than, say, a couple hours; is a temporary thing. Now, discounting temporary demons summoned via those spells, the Felguard, the pet that is permanent(thus lasting longer than a couple hours), is only 25% of their damage.
Oh wow, they actually underpowered GoS for Destruction for once. I wonder that would would feel if they did it for Lonely Winter. Still, the only survivability they lose is not having a tank(GoS gives the lock the demons ability fyi, read the tooltip). I’ld argue losing a tank is way less(especially to a class with a multitude of healing options comparitively) than a ranged aoe cc. Of course, mileage may vary. And, this again, is you moving the posts.
Yeah, now, after they got new developers that are adamant Frost needs to be the blue version of Fire.
Pets are still pets whether they are summoned or not.
Just because your feelings says that summoned pets aren’t pets that doesn’t mean it’s true. WCLogs and Blizzard disagree with you.
They are still pets because Demonis a pet class.
I know how the rotation works my guy. Like I said I have played lock at a mythic raiding level.
More insults because you again can’t refute points lol.
You have no idea how demo works or that you use your pets to buff tyrant and nether portal.
Like seriously stop. You’re just embarrassing yourself because you don’t know how anything actually works.
Doesn’t matter. Their entire damage profile is revolves around their pets.
Frost mage is not.
They aren’t even close to the same playstyle.
I knew it. I knew you were going to deflect and mention something not relevant to the point. It’s irrelevant whether or not they’re used to buff Tyrant or Poral or not. The point was, none of them were permanent so they should not count for that dps goal you wish.
We’re debating over a permanent pet. You’re debating that unless pets, temporary included, account for 50+% of the damage, it’s not a pet spec. Then when shown how a Destro and Afflic and Survival Hunter don’t have pet damage equaling to 50+% of their damage, you deflect stating it’s because the pets provide utility, and in Lock’s case utility given to the player with GoS. I then show and explain how the ranged Nova and Water Jet are utility brought by the pet. Then you say for Hunter it’s because they lose their major CD, which is an easy fix; don’t require pet and now they work the same. Same damage, a rotational difference like choosing a spell or not, and in fact, not losing any player damage since Kill Command is *all pet damage. You’re next going to reply, repeating mind you, that I’m incorrect and I don’t know what I’m talking about and probably referring back to the damage percentage, or maybe nitpicking me on how I said “if”.
Its not a deflection to point out you dont know what you are talking about.
No, we debated over frost being a pet spec and you lost. Permanent or not is irrelevant.
Everything you state that made a pet class a pet class made Frost a pet class, unless you’re willing to conclude, from your own evidence that the following is also true.
It very much is. I pointed out that you could eliminate the permanent pet from all classes(with only change being eliminating the need for a pet to activate a major cd) and the only one harmed in output is Beast Mastery, with a small argument that 25% is a decently large loss for Demo. You can argue and say I don’t know what I’m talking about because Logs show 80% damage from pets, and me pointing out how spells work and not exact rotational details of spell interactions, while you continue to ignore the crucial point being made that the discussion revolves around only accounting for the permanent pet.
Water Elemental: 15%(Again, pre-10.1.5)
Survival Pet: 15%(Pet required for CD)
Destruction Pet: 9%
Yet, Destruction is still a pet spec under your beliefs, even though logs clearly defy your belief by showing you pet isn’t doing enough damage to be considered.
No it didn’t. You’re lack of understanding doesn’t actually make your opinion true.
And you’re 100% wrong.
And no the only one talking about a permanent pet here is you as a deflection because you can’t actually refute facts.