ranged survival rotation was nowhere near the same as mm, do they even play their own game?
The only reason I see of them not bringing back rsv is because they actually get off to pissing off the players and don’t care to do it.
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Well in WoD all you had to do is replace aimed shot with explosive shot and chimaera shot with black arrow. That’s about it.
Couldn’t agree more.
There was more to it than just replacing a couple of abilities. But either way…
Aimed Shot and Explosive Shot weren’t the same type of abilities. They did not work the same way nor did they have the same interactions with other effects.
That is even more apparent when you compare Chimera Shot and Black Arrow.
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If you’re going to make an asinine argument like this at least get the “similar abilities” part right first. Explosive Shot and Chimera Shot had the most in common because they were both instant cast with a cooldown. Black Arrow didn’t neatly map into anything in MM (probably because MM and SV were truly different specs). Aimed Shot was MM’s focus dump; SV used Arcane Shot instead.
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You do realize that me saying that I find it reduntant to have all 3 specs of a class filling the exact same role is an expression of my own opinion, right? I don’t work for Blizzard nor do I have any control over their decisions.
I can’t tell you why those specs from other classes didn’t change roles, though I can point out that Holy Paladins went from hard-casting from the back of the group to engaging in melee dps on the front lines to generate their heals.
Certainly not. But I don’t think many people consider Warriors to be hybrids for having a tank spec to offer a change of pace from melee dps and I don’t find it out of line to have 1 of the 3 Hunter specs offering a change of pace from ranged dps.
The spec didn’t have to focus on not dying. I’m just saying I think they found themselves struggling to connect the name of the spec with the run and gun playstyle that emphasized core use of Explosive Shots that became more frequent from a passive called Lock n Load. There was so little in the spec to represent the concepts invoked by its name.
This is what I mean by an identity crisis and why I think they found themselves looking for a new identity for Survival. MM was pushed towards an emphasis on taking careful aim, which makes sense, and BM was pretty well covered with it’s emphasis on pet damage. The abilities of Survival just didn’t add up to the name.
Regardless of whether you prefer ranged or melee, I don’t think there’s much of an argument against the notion that the concepts of a hunter and survivalist are much better represented by a primitive spear hunter than a frenetic gunner firing off explosive rounds.
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The main argument people on the reddit, in this thread, and hunter discord present is the specs were “the same” because the aesthetics weren’t dissimilar enough.
I.e. they were all shots cast by a bow/gun therefore, everything’s the same according to them 
It’s the dumbest stuff I’ve read in a long time tbh.
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This is the literal definition of a hybrid class in WoW. A Class that fills more than 1 general role…
There is a solution to this, if this is truly a problem. Change the name of the spec. I guarantee far less people would complain about having the name of the spec changed then having the spec deleted and replaced with a melee spec.
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Ya - it gives it it’s own identity, just call it “Tracker” or something,
Ranger works too, but ranger can be mistaken for someone with a bow. Hence why i think Tracker seems better.
I think this still would have left Blizz struggling to come up with a name that encompassed the core of abilities that RSV had come to use. The spec had shifted to use of tactics that true hunters would have found disgraceful, not unlike a “fisherman” dropping a stick of dynamite into a lake. Can you think of a name to represent what RSV had become? Extermination? Endangerment?
It’s also worth pointing out that this is in fact the route they took with Combat Rogues and the spec still underwent significant changes. And I think this is a key factor that people just refuse to acknowledge. Look at the changes to MM from WoD to Legion. Look at Holy Paladins, Demo Locks, Shadow Priests, Subtlety Rogues, etc.
People fixate on the shift to melee, but even if the spec had remained a ranged spec it almost certainly would still have gone through significant changes. Players who mained RSV would still be in the same boat of having lost their favorite spec. Subtlety Rogues, for example, remained a melee spec. But you still have players like Shoes who loathe the new iteration and despise the players who enjoy it.
I can actually. Now follow me on this… Survival… because a survivalist is about using all the tools they have available to survive. Explosive shot? It’s just a bow/gun launched explosive trap. You could rename/rebrand black arrow and keep it’s effect.
I’m not sure what your point is here. Do you think people would have expected RSV to remain untouched from WoD to Legion? Because I can assure you, the only people that have ever mentioned this are pro-MSV players. As far as pro-RSV players, no one ever expected or would have expected it to remain the same from WoD into Legion.
See above.
They may not have liked it, but like combat becoming outlaw, the spec would not have been lost, it would have been changed. The only reason anyone tries to claim combat was deleted was because they changed the name at the same time, but they could have left the name the same and made the same changes.
Okay and? Like this is a really weak argument. Like for real, no one would have expected 100% of all RSV players to like any changes they could have made to RSV going into Legion even if it remained ranged…
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There’s a bit of difference between occasional use of tool and that being your primary weapon. As I mentioned earlier, you’re not going to survive for very long when you’re constantly blowing up your prey with explosive shots that leave nothing behind for consumption, and you’re going to find less and less prey as you continue to burn down the surrounding habitat.
I think everyone expects changes, but Blizz went to another level with the Legion changes. I think like MM, RSV was going to lose it’s luxury of being completely mobile from range and I think that more than anything was going to leave RSV players miserable no matter what. But it’s all just speculation since we’ll never have any way of knowing one way or the other.
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You do know there is a difference between blowing something up and vaporizing it right? Just because you used an explosive doesn’t mean it completely disappeared. Also are you really trying to suggest because in real life hunters hunt, that a survivalist couldn’t also hunt? Turns out even in wow RSV wasn’t the only group of hunters. And if we’re going down the real life route, you don’t need a bow/gun to hunt.
I do believe you are talking out of your behind because it’s the only way your argument makes sense is when you insert your own personal biases into them.
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If you’re blowing something up with an explosive round it’s very likely going to be riddled with fragments of the round and shards of bone. The remnants of your prey wouldn’t have to have disappeared for them to not be fit for consumption.
I can only base my opinions on my observations and personal experience just as you do. My own personal biases do help to shape my opinion just as yours do. As I said, purely speculation from both of us since we can’t go back and experience what might have been.
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Well i played both MM and SV during HFC (SV just to have fun).
I wont deny that the abilities worked differently, but the core of the specs were the same : shoot stuff on proc / cd, shoot your fillers, get focus with steady shot. BM had to manage frenzy at least.
But i play hunter since vanilla and i really felt bored about hunter after a while because, in my opinion, there wasn’t much variation between the cores.
Legion completely changed that and while i actually didn’t like how any of the specs played, i was happy to be able to change between them and feel like i was playing something new.
Now of course they could have expanded on ranged survival in Legion, but if it followed the trend of the other 2 specs, it would still be completely alien to its previous iteration.
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I had said give Thas’dorah to SV, give Titanstrike to MM, and give a novel throwing weapon artifact to BM. RSV could have enjoyed a WONDERFUL Legion-style remake.
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Rogues, both combat and sub, got it bad too. They were screwed over by Blizzard almost as badly as RSV Hunters were.
I disagree with this. Combat was deleted just like RSV - name change or not. Sub was ruined too, but it was recognizable.
I think the reason the uproar wasn’t as bad with combat rogues (it was pretty bad though) was because there were other physical damage melee classes in the game for people to swap to.
For RSV, it was MM or go home - especially in Legion when BM had a total of one untalented direct damage ability baked into the rotation.
That said, what happened to Rogues was wrong. What happened to Hunters was wrong. Period.
Class design in Legion was the worst I’ve ever seen. There were a lot of classes that had catastrophic changes in the name of Spec Identity (I suspect this was how they were trying to reduce button count), but I don’t think anybody had it as hard as Rogues and Hunters. For the most part, the classes I played didn’t feel much different, but it felt like they ripped the soul out of my Hunter.
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Where as eating prey you poisoned and blew up with grenades makes way more sense right?
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It was not. You want to know why it was not?
If they had left the name the same and people didn’t like the changes, no one would have argued it was deleted.
If they changed the name and the changes were generally well received, no one would have argued it was deleted.
The only reason people argue it was deleted was because they changed the name and people didn’t like the changes.
What makes you say this? I happen to believe the exact opposite. Since I’m here arguing this very thing, this seems like a groundless claim.
Again, you’re making a statement without any evidence to back it up.
Every bit of this is conjecture.
I played Combat and I played Outlaw. I thought Outlaw was fun, but it 100% did not feel like Combat. Had the name stayed the same, I would still be arguing the fact that Combat was deleted. It 100% was not just a name change.
It’s not conjecture. Does anyone argue that MM was deleted in Legion? Cause MM in the beginning of Legion was very much disliked as it was a RNG whack-a-mole of a spec that didn’t play anything like any iteration of MM before it. Never once did I here anyone try to claim they deleted MM. So no, if they had kept the name Combat no one would have ever tried to claim Combat was deleted. The only reason people try to make that argument is because they changed it in a way that a lot of people didn’t like and they changed the name.