Well then lets merge all the classes so we only have 1 tank, 1 healer, and 1 dps… because it’s redundant to have more than 1 of each…
4 Likes
I get your point, even if it is so far to the extreme that it’s absurd. But consider this.
You don’t see any classes with more than a single tank spec (DKs started out being able to tank or dps in all 3 specs, which was awesome, but this choice was removed). No class except Priest has more than 1 healing spec. But we need 4 classes that not only have 3 dps specs, but without even any deviation from melee or ranged within their perspective classes?
I haven’t pvped as SV so I could be wrong but I think it’s less about it being good as it is the other specs being very bad.
3 Likes
I’m not sure 6% spec representation “split”. An overwhelming majority don’t play survival and virtually nonexistent at high level content.
Dot class vs direct damage with mobility w/o the inconvenience of micromanaging buggy pets. They couldn’t balance the class, don’t let them change that history.
I’m not.
7 Likes
Ppl don’t play it at high level pve content because we have another spec that basically acts as a 40y range melee.
That’s how it used to be for me in legion even though SV was my favorite spec (and i play hunter since vanilla). Now i don’t raid anymore though.
1 Like
One comp. You know what phrase uses ‘one’? One-trick pony. But perhaps in essence, you can say all three specs are one-trick ponies and that is a satisfactory argument. I would rather go with the class/specs that can handle a lot more things if I wanted to be competitive in the meta.
Off the record, I’m glad I didn’t really take the bait. I’m glad I didn’t lose more than I was going to win only to be told the same thing, “SV is the best way you can go as Hunter”. I could have legitimately tried and still get trolled for it. But then, I still remember RSV and how that was more worth bringing it back than justifying MSV to exist or coexist. Part of the reason I stuck with MM was to show RSV solidarity.
I only played a hunter at max level for 5 years, but I’m willing to take one for the real team. I was blessed to start this class in a time when RSV existed. I don’t know what the Hades you were doing then. As a Warrior, you had enough to occupy your mind: the big Hollywood class that was and all that.
Then do so because SV is the best hunter PVP spec currently in the meta which imo is fine. SV doesn’t get a lot of medals in any other areas. Its not the go to Raid spec, its not the go to mythic plus spec and it sure isn’t the most played hunter spec but at least it has pvp which is fine.
1 Like
You don’t see a lot of hunters PvPing anyway, but I tend to target them because they’re so easy to bug out or kill. In EBGs, I often get top 5 in damage done as a 465 pure MM. In this morning’s Trashran I forced an early Turtle on a SV I happened across. I was too busy and too polite for a /bye. He took my A’s(Aimed) like a sponge. I say this unironically because I would have done the same thing. As an SV, you can rush a MM and get the same result, because SV counters MM. Contrariwise, a MM can rush a SV, because MM counters SV. Whoever Turtles the earlier is usually the loser, because that’s 172 seconds afterwards you get to take him to town and break his candy butt at Smackdown Hotel.
So I will be fair like always: you have to “know your role and shut your mouth” as a DPS support, no matter which spec. Which spec is the best at that, I find debatable. I’m at a level not many Hunters got up to. Over *70(edit: taking in account my Horde MM and Alliance MM) days played in BFA at 120.
MM doesn’t counter SV just because you happened to find the only player in WoW worse than you… You’re legitimately cracked.
1 Like
Actually, I wouldn’t mind if they wholesale transformed it into a spear-thrower spec. That way we would have the original Warcraft spearthrower/axethrower back.
Then why didn’t Rogues get a ranged spec? Why didn’t Warlock or Mage get a melee spec?
Please explain how Subtlety and Assassination are different beyond one uses poisoned daggers and one uses daggers with glowy purple stuff some times. But they changed Combat, already the more distinct spec, into Outlaw.
Please explain how Affliction and Destruction are different beyond one using DoTs and one using direct damage. But they changed Demonology, already the more distinct spec, into a mass summoner.
Please explain how Frost, Fire, and Arcane are different beyond differently colored projectiles.
For those of you playing at home, I have an understanding of these classes and what differentiates the specs, I’m trying to get @Photonfervor to describe it in a way that doesn’t also cover the differences between MM and RSV as of WoD, because I don’t think it can be done.
13 Likes
Fair enough I guess.
But you can’t exactly have every class in the game be a hybrid class.
This isn’t a game that intends to cater towards reality when it comes to the design and fantasy/theme tied to our various spec choices.
You are right that the original theme intended by what was known as Survival back in the day, pretty much went away with WotLK. Nothing since before then has catered towards the idea of a talent category/tree which is focused on survivability(like what it was in the earlier days).
With WotLK and especially with Cata when we got actual Core Specs added, they intended to change the paradigm of having one main class with lots of minor things to focus on, to what we now know as a class with multiple deeply defined choices in terms of individual fantasies/themes that are generally more distinguished than anything we had prior…
Some liked these changes, some did not. For those that did not, we have WoW: Classic which have retained these original themes.
In short, in terms of the evolutionary changes with design philosophies, it made sense for us to have more defined choices tied to individual specs. The old…“Class-wide” style wouldn’t have worked in the long run.
Having said this, I fail to understand what this has to do with what you said earlier about a “glaring identity crisis”. Did you mean with SV itself and how it no longer focused mainly on just that; Survivability?
If that is the case then I can only say that, there are MANY problems waaay bigger than the fact that one spec no longer lives up to it’s original name. And if made a priority, you could just change it’s name and be done with it.
It’s a matter of catering towards individual player preferences. It’s even more important to have a lot of options when it comes to things like Core Specializations(even if they fill the same roles) nowadays due to the fact that specs have such defined identities.
In the far past, if you picked talents from the MM tree, that did not vastly change your playstyle from that of someone who picked BM talents. Nowadays, that’s a whole other story.
Don’t think of it as having many options to pick the same role. Think of it as just having many different and unique ways to focus on your personal preferences in terms of fantasy and playstyle.
That is because the game is designed around having a set general amount of tanks and healers and DPS in various group-based types of content.
Again, it’s about catering to individual player preferences.
People are different and we like different things. It’s the same when it comes to picking a specific class -> spec(and/or role) -> even individual talents.
1 Like
- Because it underperforms.
- Because it brings no viable utility.
- Because there are better melee options.
Same, they broke it in WoD and since they couldn’t balance the spec, they made it a melee.
1 Like
It most certainly doesnt.
Right. So the melee spots in mythic are as follows: 1 warrior for battle shout and rest demon hunters?
Same as above
1 Like
If there was only some metric, some area you could go where they coalesce numbers, where they “logged” them and compared them to other classes or even separated the rankings amongst all three specs. Maybe they would call it warcraft logs or something. Oh well, who knows.
I mean… kind of… ya… I mean, mages, warlocks and BM hunters, but ya, sounds like most raid comps. Have you googled the mystical area of the internet I described yet?
Same… same as above.
3 Likes
My point was its popularity in raids is low not because people don’t like it but because we have a much more convenient option.
And yes, i also liked SV during WoD, i even tried it on mythic HFC after they buffed the damage back. It was actually decent on single target but 4p MM was still miles ahead.
But i rather have MSV because it gives us a different playstyle.
1 Like
Subjective… Counter argument: People want RSV back and MSV is something that is forced when in reality it should have been a 4th spec or a simple spec tree.
I’d rather be MM, BM isn’t more convenient, it’s more effective.
^ All of this… I mean all of “Forums>Classes>Hunter>” could largely be solved if the DEVS cared about what was going on and they LISTENED. 3 expansions worth of neglect and bandaid fixes is a HUGE problem. Maybe I’m wrong, but it’s like a spiteful child because “we” didn’t like how SV turned out and rather then making it a glowing spec, they introduced it with a monster of a class DH which has always made stay in the shadows.
1 Like
True.
A simple change of talents could achieve both the original RSV and MSV in one (OG Explosive shot, black arrow, LnL procs etc). It also means MM doesn’t have to cater for RSV talents, which bothered me from the get go. Let MM be it’s own damn thing, why does it have to cater for RSV.
As much as I enjoy MSV for pvp and arena, I still don’t fully know if the Dev team achieved anything positive with the move. It’s been under represented for 2 expansions lol.
3 Likes
I just want my rsv back, all i want tbh. Ion is so full of himself its sad.
8 Likes
If they bring RSV back as a 4th spec and continue to work on msv then things would work a lot smoother for all. Msv players can still play melee and the spec could actually utilize a full rework and rsv can come back with a new rework as well considering it’s been gone for a good while and the talents will have to be reworked
1 Like