Literally every other class has this with their main stats but casters. Why? Besides being 1 or 2 shot in bg or pop, give us better and more competitive damage. We don’t need to wait until phase 5 to make a change…
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a rune will likely come that says “get some spellpower per INT point”
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Pretty much this, or alot more SP gear in the next level up raid.
Blizzard can only do this through Runes or new items because any change would also affect Classic Era.
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It gives you mana and crit.
Casters are super powerful already in vanilla no need to give them more power.
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honestly i dont agree with ya on this one sa.
if no changes were made from the base game , warriors and rogues would be top and then mages then locks/hunters then the rest.
making a change where casters scale better as we go would only shake that up a bit and maybe be refreshing .
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I think this lineup makes a lot of sense from a lore perspective. Warriors and rogues are there to deal damage and do it physically which should do more versus most bosses, than some mage or warlock.
However, mages scale really well, and fire mages will eventually beat out a good chunk of the warriors.
I just think the warriors / rogues at top of meters are the best design that translates well to pvp. If other classes move up too much we will imbalance other parts of the game.
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Because the game was designed for caster damage to mostly scale up with spell ranks until 60, with only an occasional piece of +SP gear.
Mage and Warlock have largely closed the damage gap with mDPS as they have started to fill out their gear from BFD. With everyone wearing Phase 1 BiS, Mage and Lock will be ahead of Shaman, Paladin and Feral Druid, and trail Hunter, Rogue and Warrior.
That’s not a bad place to sit.
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fair point .
honestly bringing other classes up to warrior/rogue level or something close (maybe not mages cause they are already top 3) would be a way to go.
druids scale horribly and suffer from mana issues (same with shaman and pally and shadow priest) maybe somehow give a mana back thing and a scaling thing with those classes in particular .
i dunno.
problem with warlocks is they need so much hit from gear they have to sac other stats to even fall a little short in terms of pve dmg .
just feels bad ya know?
Yeah I feel ya, I just wish that people who wanted to top meters would roll warriors / rogue and that in a tiny way I think that predictability is kinda nice since it can save some people from rerolling versus dynamic metas in which classes rotate being at the top.
But warriors / rogue lack a lot of QoL that casters have, so I think a lot of people want the caster benefits and the melle damage in one
I think a big part of my earlier point is that warriors / rogues pvp in very different specs than pve. A pve spec warriors / rogue is almost totally useless in organized pvp (outside rare situations), but ele / moonkin / ret are already pvp specs - so if they get pve buffs to be able to compete with warriors / rogues that are pve specced, they will become OP in pvp.
you can do it in other ways than straight sp.
sustainability is a big thing.
mana back or whatever is a good start or some type of thing like that.
you can buff a bit of the scaling without being super overpowered or breaking the meta completely .
maybe 1/4th a sp per int point wouldnt be a huge bump but would do wonders in pve i bet.
i pvp a good bit now and the things that have changed up the meta a bit is kinda cool.
with numbers being tighter as the level bands go the meta will be sustained and reinforced a bit i would imagine.
All I know is that on Era casters are very strong in pvp without the extra 10-20% spell power proposed, they dominate a lot of the melle classes in many interactions.
Buffing them further seems a bit risky.
They do fine in pve as well. I just don’t think the game should be balanced around raid dps. I think casters that are properly consuming should be able to manage their mana. (Physical damage that don’t properly consume also do far less damage than those that do)
Every Top DPS is physical, a few tanks do more damage than the average caster. Stop gaslighting about mana costs being a trade off for strong abilities when they’re just a cost for abilities weaker than auto attack
i can tell you never played a moonkin in classic or a shadow priest or a shaman caster and dont know how bad it actually is in the base game.
they can add in things like warbringer for warriors and other stuff for the rogues to counter the added damage.
if the damage continues to rise though it will be a game of 1 shots both melee and caster though.
whoever gets the jump will win , always.
Not gaslighting you. You’re trying to balance casters around a lvl 25 meta. Go do some Era raids and you’ll see plenty of casters high up on the meters decently often. Especially fire mages with big ignites.
I have a druid and an ele shaman. I would never go dps in a raid I heal and get the dps gear to use in pvp. And mana is totally manageable on both those classes in pvp.
Yes, I agree here - and that’s why they added horrible things like flat damage reduction in wsg and the resil helms. Which is why I support less buffing not more.
ya . honestly if it keeps scaling we will be doing 10x the damage we were doing in era naxx or more.
about the moonkin and ele shaman , they deserve to raid the spec they want to as well.
some tuning is needed.
if only just for mana . the druid scaling is awful but with proper mana changes ele shaman may actually be ok.
22 Fury Warriors disagree. There’s a lot more to “Casters” than the one mage getting the ignites or a couple of locks post AQ when they actually get hit, Moonkin, Ele, Shadow, not to mentioned the other trees on Mage/Lock. Of the 9 classes 5 can be casters; and mage is the only one reliably functional endgame PvE. That’s a fundamental issue
That’s where we disagree. I am fine with some specs only being good for leveling, while others only being good for pvp, while others only good for pve. Some are good for multiple things.
I see no need for every spec to be viable in pve raids as long as every class has one spec that is viable and can attend raids.
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aye . we will disagree with each other on that one.
i think they are leaning away from that with some of the changes currently in sod.
as long as the tier gear changes depending on spec or some other concession for those spec happens it will work out well i hope.
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Yeah they are, and that worries me that it is cause more and more imbalances to pvp - which I find amazing in vanilla.
Hopefully it all works out, regardless we have Era as a backup if they end up destroying pvp too much.
I’d hate to see this as a Rune, because it would effectively make one rune slot “mandatory”, where the Runes have been pretty good at allowing flexibility.
Bake it in properly if it’s going to happen, or save it for Season of Creativity.