Ending the game once 3 towers are destroyed makes it WAY too easy for Defense to win TBH. It makes it so that Defense doesn’t even have to TRY to defend their walls. Just rush towers and you win before Offense can break through.
Requiring 3 walls for Offense to win (I assume you mean 3 “layers” of walls, as opposed to 3 walls on the outer layer) also makes it around 50% more difficult for Offense to win.
Thus, your proposed changes will only skew Wintergrasp to make it Defense-dominant.
the HP of the towers can be buffed, if anything i would be worried about this skewing the game in favor of Attack, as they can 1-2-3 punch walls if Offense is zerging south.
i also suggested that the total vehicles be lowered, and that the southern workshops be always owned by the attacking team, each team gets 2 shops, and that leaves SR and BT to fight over.
the idea being that an attack will be launched from one. so if Def captures BT and Atk captures SR, then you know the main fights will be between BT and west and SR and fortress. teams will have to split because neither can afford to let the other go uncontested.
the real question is what to do about the ranking system, as its the main source of the first fight flight you see in WG. perhaps something like vehicles wont spawn, or perhaps something like a blood turn in.
So you want to just spend gold, turn on Warmode and be +5 over mythic raid gear… That doesn’t sound stupid to you at all? Whole point of an MMO is progression. You just want to buy gear once you hit max level and get a legendary with gold and be done?
This will sound rude man but you are just lazy. It isn’t Blizzards fault you don’t want to do any other content. Sounds like this game isn’t your type of game honestly.
This game is not just PvE vs PvP. You have people who only do randoms. People who only do arena. People who only do rated and so on. PvE has the samething. People who only do quest for rep and mounts. People who do only raids. Only mythic +. Then majority who hate Torg and questing in general. Korth all the time peopel complain they don’t want to do dailies to get the sockets and conduits. Should everyone then be able to buy conduits, legendaries, high gear with gold? It is just a terrible idea. All gear is a grind that is the point of the game. It is sad but true.
There are people who are left out all the time because they choose not to do content.
No one would be sad about new maps. Just depends how their queues actually work though. If it works by grabbing 30 random people then picking a 15v15 map then sure. If it picks map first then starts grabbing people nope then.
People already hit this and hate it. Problem is YOU do ONLY epics which is YOUR problem. 5-7 min wait time for random. That isn’t even near a long queue. Gives me time to do dailies, mount farm while waiting. Lots of people do it. Reason epics have a long wait time, they are very unpopular and majority of players hate them. Tons sit afk, others join just to troll chat. Only reason to combine is to fix Epic queue times which still are not that bad compared to MOP when regular was over 20min.
Mount rewards would be fun and people would do it then stop. Wpvp is not popular at all. On some servers it was but those guilds where in my opinion just bad players looking for advantages in pvp. I do have a complete friends list and I can tell you I can think of 4 people who have warmode on. People don’t like Wpvp. All it is are mass groups looking for easy farms. “We have 5 they have 5 move on”. I use to be on ED during MOP which was easily one of the most popular Wpvp servers. All those guilds did was stack as many people as they could and looked for easy zones where they couldn’t do 20v4. I am not making that up either. That is what Wpvp is and why majority do not like it. Wpvp is never going to be popular. Yes people do it, but to little people. So making mounts or stuff would make it eh for a small time till people got the rewards.
You have to have caps. Otherwise the grinding could be done in a day. We should have a lot more to buy with honor. This is asked all the time and should be implemented.
All we should be asking for is simple. Honor gear you buy with honor. Conquest gear you buy with conquest. Honor gear = mythic 0 gear. Conquest = Heroic Raid gear.
Rating increases conquest cap.
No scaling in instanced zones because takes away point of progression.
Honestly PvPers do nothing but complain honestly. It is to hard to make majority of them happy. Way I see it though, players are most of the problem anyway.
I’m opposed to mixing faction in BG’s but all for it in Arena. Battlegrounds have lore around them, especially the classics. It’s just so integral to the history Warcraft.
OTOH, arena is arena. It has nothing to do with faction battles - it’s all about personal achievement.
I like having a set you can buy for a moderate amount of gold that is intended for PvP. It should be enough gold to feel special, but not more than you would get just from leveling and doing quests. That said, I would only have one set. I don’t see a need for a higher ilevel pvp set at all.
We already have a borrowed power treadmill, just make sure we can get it through PvP. Honor would be a great way to upgrade conduits for example. I’d much rather do that than farm rares in Korthia.
some important points to remember is that you are only boosted up in pvp combat. you dont just turn on war mode and get free max ilvl. this set would only be 216 in pve.
progression is still there, but you are giving a viable starting point. the difference is the progression is done via optimization and build exploration, not ilvl increases. this is much more appealing to pvpers because pvp is a competitive test of skill, not a test of who showed up with the biggest ilvl. optimization still remains as part of progression because your ability to theorycraft and build is itself a test of skill and needs to remain in the game. but you should never be allowed to reach a point where you mathematically supersede skill with gear.
i explore a relatively healthy diet of content, from role play to raiding to pvp. having played in both sports IRL and esports, i can tell you that competition works different from dragonslaying and needs different rules, one of those being easy entry and a relatively even playing field. you have to remember that in sports you look for an edge, not a gap.
i dont see how being able to walk up and buy a set of 216 less than optimal gear is going to upset anything pve wise, if anything you can skipp a lot of the BS grinding and go straight to the fun part of grinding.
lets be clear, nobody would buy this set and then call it a day unless they are a pure pvper.
a lot of them want wow the pvp game to be spun off into its own game, or bring the tournament realms back, regardless, there is a lot of players who only want to log in an queue up for pvp and never want to touch the rest of the game. and this number is self sustaining. adding things like gold sets and leggos for gold means they can get into the game as well. that means a group of players that doesn’t care if the new patch is boring or if the new raid has terrible writing, its a group that just stays subbed all the time. i think appealing to them is more important than appealing to raiders who unsub for the patch as soon as they get CE.
this is toxic, plain and simple. and it needs to stop, wow is a huge game, there is room enough on this hill for both of us. besides, the point is to bring players back to the game, not drive them away. we’ve heard from the grind and progression crowd, SL was based around their feedback and its been a disaster, pushing further in that direction is not going to make things better, you are veering off course in an ocean, not feet from hitting the gold vein in a mine.
maps can be quite contentious, the two most recent are the two most hated, arenas can be easily made becuase in the end they are just a few columns with different visual theme. BGs on the other hand need to be based on a lot of factors, more than just making half a map and then mirroring it. you need to invent a new game, otherwise we are just getting clones of the same game but with different themes.
epic maps are even more difficult because epic pvpers dont exactly want them even on both sides, so making fair asymmetric map that isn’t a generic clone of what we already have is even more difficult.
do they though? seems everywhere i go people are asking for mixed factions for their specific game mode.
not really, i did the math during bfa, they fill about the same rate as randoms, but since they have 4x the players, they take 4x as long to fill because the fill rate is the same for unrate pvp in general. in fact if anything, the fact that it takes you 5m to fill 10 people and me 15m to fill 40 means that more people are trying epics than randoms.
the queue imbalance has more problems than just long queue times for horde, alliance groups are able to perfectly queue sync and get 8 groups into the same bg in order to GY farm for hours. BG week has shown that this is a population issue as once the pvp population is increased on ally side, they are no longer able to do this.
Just because you dont like it doesn’t mean its not popular. teams used to get hundreds of players into battle for nazjatar and that was during BfA, and expansion everyone hated and we all guessed the population was 1.7 mil.
the problem is there is basically no wpvp content for SL. with no reason to queue up for war mode, nobody is.
so what? you may feel obligated to grind everything in a day, but i don’t. so either i get to hear you whine and cry about feeling obligated to keep up with some 19 year old chugging red bulls, or i get to hear you whine and cry about timegating. seems like you are going to whine and cry regardless and we might as well do away with things that are actually annoying. like the caps.
if i half try even as a casual, i can cap honor in a day. typically i cap about every 2-3 days though, and im really tired of going back to the vendor to constantly spend honor so im not capped and can do the weekly quests.
this still has the problem of making you pvp before you are ready for it. lets translate that to other sports: you should learn how to fish before buying a fishing pole. thats silly, you need the pole first in order to learn.
honor gear for gold gets you into pvp, instantly, build optimization through conquest give you progression so you keep playing.
Sorry man you are so far off. Progression is progression. Optimization and build exploration isn’t progression. You can youtube that and get best stats and builds lol. Progression is your character getting stronger over the course of the patch. That is ilvl and gear. That has ALWAYS been the point of this game and always should be. You grind to get better gear, not pay to win.
Also no, you should not spend gold and be +5 above a mythic raider in PvP lol. Sit from the other side and really think how that sounds. A true mythic raider should be way higher than someone who does nothing but randoms. That is the point of progression. Doing harder content, get better gear, be stronger character.
Not to sound rude, but that speaks volumes to your character that you believe that.
Sports analogy really can’t work. That would be same as saying the Yankees would need to give up some of their income to the Orioles so they could buy better players and be on a even playing field. Sports don’t work that way. What you are trying to ask for is free handouts to have an advantage rather than work for that advantage.
What you are actually asking is to be able to buy gear that is around Mythic +5 gear with gold and then have it scale above Mythic raid gear lol. I don’t understand why you think that is a great answer lol.
It is an MMO, grinding is part of the game. Otherwise why play it? Also tournament realms are gone for a reason. They were not popular. People will say they were popular because people played it, but the % of people who did to how many play the game would show it wasn’t popular. Which cost the company money to even upkeep and so on.
There is WAY more people who log in to do PvE and not touch PvP. I see tons of them everyday. I will talk in chat during dailies about dailies and go UGH terrible BG times. Most comments back, “thats why I don’t do PvP”.
I don’t know how many unsub during patch. I mean most would wait till they are geared out. Then swap to alt and gear them out. PvE has to much to do. Korth is a long long grind which is terrible anyway imo. Some peopel like those grinds I hate them personally.
Might want to look up what toxic means because that is far from it. You have this feeling of privledge where you think devs should cater to this small amount of people. This game has always been a grind. ALWAYS! It is what an MMO is. I don’t know where you think they took people’s feedback about grinding.
I don’t know where you are going. Someone did a strawpoll and majority where against it. You are reading a lot of that in this thread also. I dont’ know anyone who wants it. Most don’t care about the 5-7 min wait time.
You can’t do the math because you don’t know how it works. Just saw BGs are on their own servers. You could have (making up number) 200 regular BGs going on and 50 epics. When one BG ends, a new one starts. So unless you know how servers work with BGs you can’t do any realistic math man. I do one till I win then move on. But from forums hearing people say “I see you all the time”, that shows not many people are queueing up for epics. If you are getting same people over and over. That would be a small sample size.
Lmao come on bro those numbes are not even close. I would go and do the weekly and it would take FOREVER to get a group of 20. Then it would be like 10v20 till dailiy done then other side got bigger and is just went back and forth. People would turn warmode on for weekly then turn it off. Wpvp is not that popular.
This would be old information but it shows most of the mindset. ED back in MOP again was HUGE for Wpvp. Well huge for this game. Guild I was in would constatnly have over 150 people online. When they would set up Wpvp they couldn’t even get 6 groups for Wpvp with over 150 people online. On a Wpvp server… They would have to combine with other guilds which just adds more people who have no interest. Again people do do it!!!
So lets be nice and say that was 20% who did anyway. On a Wpvp server. Now think about the milions who were not on a wpvp server. % takes a nose dive. It isn’t popular. People can enjoy it I agree, but no reason to invest money and time into something that isn’t popular.
See this is you being toxic lol. I never cried or whined about it. I am giving the devils advocate about why it is a bad idea. I think we should have caps. That is what helps with the level playing field you kind of want. You are just trying to find a way to make things better for yourself. You are not thinking about the game at all and the point of the game. You just are looking inward at what would work best for you and make you the most powerful (aka buying gear and being +5 over best gear in game).
What about people who raid before they are ready? People do it so what? You earn the gear by doing it. It is a grind. back in legion I grinded forvever on my feral to get him ready for mythic + because I couldn’t get drops. So PvE players could go longer waiting. Should they just be able to buy a whole set that is above dungeons so they can just jump into raids?
You are trying to make content pointless.
If you want PvP gear, PvP and earn it. It is as simple as this. 2 set. honor/conquest. SET item levels no scale.
How most PvP players think. All you do is PvP you don’t need a edge over PvE players. You are going to win anyway because that is all you do. The scaling is just stupid and shouldn’t exist.
you start off with an unoptimal honor set that you buy with gold, and a free leggo that is basically only useful in pvp at this point. you then pvp and grind out your conquest set, and as you buy each piece, you get your optimal stats that you desire. then if you truly want to get BIS, you still need to grind things like sockets and a 262 socketed leggo. this will require you to upgrade your conquest gear above its base level.
the important part is that if you use a from all pvp model instead of just from rated, then you can progression that pve ilvl all season automatically. similar to how you coudl just not care about your neck in BfA and it sort of leveled anyway. if you tune the rank unlock for 2 weeks for the average casual, then it will take 14 weeks to unlock 249 ilvl. keep in mind thats the average, so the slow ends of the bell curve will be at 28 weeks, which is about what pvp seasons were in previous expansions.
keep in mind, that is 14 weeks of grinding to unlock a set that is mainly versatility and is 5 below mythic raid gear. even if you were the same ilvl as a pver, the primary focus on vers will mean you are probably not pulling as much damage as someone in perfect PVE tune.
why? nobody has ever managed to give a good response justifying this for pvp. in pve it makes perfect sense, you need ilvl growth in order to simulate skill growth. but pvp has true skill growth.
if Mr. MythicRaider wants to win, he can L2play. in fact the idea of selling the base set for gold is so he can walk up, buy the set, and jump right in, not needing to worry about looking up what stats to run or which build to use. the honor set would provide the verse trinkets and ilvl needed to pvp on par with everyone else. if he likes pvp, then he can start the progression grind on his conquest set. if not, he can vendor his honor set back to the vendor (for the exact same amount he paid for it) and then forget about pvp.
have you played any? and im not talking about professional sports. casual sports world wide is about the passion for the sport and competition. often who comes in 1st at the end doesn’t matter as much. i go autocrossing on the weekend, my boss goes golfing. neither one of us is trying to make the yankees.
because it only scales up in pvp content. its unoptimized 216 gear the rest of the time.
keep in mind, i said in pvp combat in warmode, it doesn’t just scale up because you turned on war mode.
but, what if it did? everyone else in warmode would be rocking the same stuff or better so it wouldn’t matter.
and why does a mythic raider care what ilvl a pvper has in pvp? especially if he has easy access to the exact same ilvl.
absolutely, i honestly wager the pvp community is probably less than 100k players globally, and that’s everyone, glads, casuals, epics, wpvpers. thats why its so important to lower the barrier to entry. wow’s pvp is one of the best games ever made, every pvper knows this, and we all hate that blizzard just lets pvp languish in the basement.
im checking, but i dont feel privledged at all, i see the devs tweaking numbers to cater to the cries of rivals and duelists. how many of them are there again? clearly blizz will cater to a small number of people. if anything the fact that a relatively few amount of rated players get whatever they want while the casual pvp community has literally been on by blizzard this expansion should leave me feeling bitter and cynical towards blizzard, but im mainly just irritated that they are still acting like listening to the top 1% of the arena ladder is going to fix anything when they tried that exact thing the last 2 patches and its failed horribly.
usual places, reddit, twitter, forums, discord. you also have to remember that just because a poll was done once doesn’t mean that opinion is set in stone. player shift opinions when presented with new information, as everyone should.
you’d think after a few thousand i’d know, but not according to the internet…
the playfield is only truly leveled for everyone at expansion launch and maybe sometimes patches if there is good catchup. but really, people complain about feeling forced to grind all at once, then complain about timegating. if you are going to get complaints either way, get rid of the one that actually stops the progression if you care about it so much.
i agree, the point of the scaling is to put everyone on the same level. it costs gold so there’s no barrier to entry.
Ya know, if our PVP stats were decoupled from gearing, you could have a situation like this:
you have a seperate tab on your character sheet where you have a template of stats like legion.
everyone is the same ilvl in pvp.
pvping lets you earn points to put into different stats to tune your template how you like.
everyone gets 1% stats and stam increase every week in order to create a sense of progression throughout the expansion, starting off early with low hp and fast offensive based builds, and ending the expansion with lots of HP and defensive based builds.
borrowed power systems would still be in play and learning to play with them would still be the flavor of the expansion.
but true.
on by blizzard this expansion should leave me feeling bitter and cynical towards blizzard, but im mainly just irritated that they are still acting like listening to the top 1% of the arena ladder is going to fix anything when they tried that exact thing the last 2 patches and its failed horribly.