Yes. General consensus is that WoD is the best system they have had so far. But, you get a new developer in and they just have to try to prove they can do better. Pride and “empire building” are the main culprits, I suspect.
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Scaling down the maximum ilvl in PVP makes sense to a max that is a fair max, equiv to lets say heroic ilvl for the tier, you’re right.
Our current system is wayy to complicated to know what an upgrade is or isn’t. I put on a higher level item and my DPS over a few games went down, I took it off, put back a lower one and I was doing better (comparing in game damage in the victory of defeat window which includes your damage after pvp scaling). Mainly because the players I weas facing were lower ilvl then myself in lower bracket games. I was to high ilvl.
There is no way anyone could try to defend blizzard over this clown show lol.
“Hey guys let’s punish everyone that put in the time and effort to make their character stronger in arena by making them secretly weaker than casual 460 ilvl players”. Good one.
This goes against everything MMOs stand for.
You wouldn’t be able to measure your dps going down in such a situation other than through “feel”. Your dps meter reads the numbers you see, and those go up regardless of how unfavorable scaling is for you. The only thing that goes down is the numbers they see and the % of their hp bar your move actually removes.
I’m talking end of game victory or defeat. How much lower or higher that dmg is compared to details The end game results include pvp scaling, this is why they are lower or higher. Its the only way to accurately measure your damage in this hidden scaling system. Besides your friend telling you what every spell or ability did on them.
Writing posts while being high is a bad idea, also for once nobody asked for this broken system. They changed PvP in MoP to make it “better” in WoD and the only thing they did was ruin the whole thing, cause MoP had some of the best PvP we’ve seen. Really the fix is quite simple and you just have to go back and look at what worked back then and what are you doing different today and just copy what worked, if it broke don’t fix it. The problem here is that It wasn’t broken they broke it with their retarded systems and now they can’t fix it.
Started playing retail for the first time in many years (due to Classic), and it’s nearly impossible to keep up with everything that you need to know in PVP. There’s no giant list of things listed of stuff you need to look out for (that aren’t in-game) with all these unlisted hotfixes. I just learned about the details of the Azerite armor nerfs last week, when I hit 2100 in 3’s.
Until this recent socket news, nobody told me to avoid upgrading ilvl on certain items. I didn’t know a lower ilvl spite would be BiS, over a higher ilvl one, for instance. People on this very thread are saying that “generally higher ilvl is better,” but I’m starting to become suspicious of that.
For instance, equipping a higher ilvl weapon makes your scaling ilvl swing a huge amount, without giving you a large amount of stamina or secondary stats. If much of your damage doesn’t come from int (breath, claw) and you prefer to be tankier, it may not be in your interest to use a high ilvl weapon. Going from 460 to 475 is worth ~2.05 ilvl! Or 171 verse from gems.
aka 290int, 110sta vs 163 secondary stat.
Unless I’m missing something, the verse wins without question. And if I shouldn’t be gemming, then I shouldn’t be using an ilvl475 weapon, either. Calls my entire gearing mindset into question. The entire system is a mess. I used to wonder why low hp targets felt harder to kill than they should…
Kinda dumb in the first place coming to the arena forums with the purpose to just to white knight blizzard on pvp decisions which all have been wrong for the most part of BFA however
But then you call also “us” pvpers. You are also one of them or why are you here?
I literally hate people who are trying to make opinions based off observing blizzard.
It’s literally retarded and shows that you absolutely have no clue how pvp in any kind of way works
It remembers me about one guy who just can’t get enough white knighting and observing pvp decisions by blizzard on the eu forums with absolutely no clue on pvp whatsoever.
Just stop it and go back to gd forums
I honestly think you should read the entire post. I do make an argument in support of changes to the current system, that also brings meaningful choices to pvp gearing without making players in full mythic raid gear to strong.
Join the Template Gang, my friend. Exalter and I would love to have you. 
it’s indefensible
thread over
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Because people don’t come to the forums to praise Blizzard.
People come here to complain, find answers about things that aren’t apparent (e.g. Socket scaling) and much more.
Just like how people don’t take a plate of food up to a counter to praise it.
People take a plate of food up to a counter to complain and find an answer and (hopefully) a fix.
So yes, you’re going to find differing opinions at differing eras on the forums.
Lmao, golden, absolutely golden… The Dude
This is either some serious boot licking on your part, or you just haven’t cared to read or understand what this change actually is. They deserve 0 defense on this matter. Yes, we all hate PvP scaling by and large in the PvP community. However, you are missing the point entirely if you think PvPers are mad just because the 50 vers we gem into our gear or whatever doesn’t actually increase us by 50 vers. Nobody would be flipping out waiting for a blue to reply if, due to scaling, 50 vers actually only increased a fully geared character’s strength in PvP by say, 34 vers.
We are mad because it actually makes us less strong and puts us at a disadvantage, after having spent hours upon hours farming assaults and visions for sockets. You literally become less powerful by working harder to improve your gear in an MMORPG game. Your gems make you weaker defensively and offensively. That’s a problem. It needs to be fixed.
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“In defense of Blizzard…” said no sane man, ever
The PvP scaling system for max players facing max players needs to change or go. But it’s up to the players to research how it works so we can provide friendly feedback that we want a change. Blizzard wasn’t hiding this from us. They show us our actual dmg at the end of every battle, which is different from our details.
This information on PVP scaling has been available since 2018. I don’t think it’s fair to be upset at blizzard, as if we didn’t like this system we should have told them this in 2018. When sockets became part of scaling at a later time I purposely didn’t wear sockets in PvP. And I felt stronger in PvP without sockets. I personally was happy blizzard did this, as it saved me so much time not farming sockets.
All of this information was on the internet even if any gamers missed the blue post and has been for a long time. Gamepedia even had sockets referenced that they effected scaling. I previously posted on the forums to bring more awareness to scaling but people didn’t understand.
We can ask for a system change but at the same time, that information was available. I’d often hear some of the top streamers tell people to grind sockets, I honestly thought they were trolling or joking, how could those rank 1 pvpers not know?
Part of end game content has always been about the players researching the intricacies of the game. In many cases, higher ilvl items won’t always increase your dmg vs. your opponent in the current system, pending their ilvl. You can feel like they buff your dmg but in the opponents logs, your dmg will be different.
I think the primary problem is that PVP scaling is way to complicated for most to understand. I tried explaining it to other top pvpers who had hero or rank 1 to help them and they didn’t quite get how their choices were impacting them. They didn’t understand how they could take more damage with a higher PVP item lvl. Since it’s contradicts our understanding of WoW’s natural gear progression. I wanted to tell people so we could get together and help blizzard make a change for a better PVP system.
I think we want gear to matter, we want meaningful choices. So thus the best solution is to remove the current PvP scaling for players 120 vs. 120 and simply cap their item lvl in pvp at a fair amount, equiv to heroic or conquest for the current tier. So mythic raiders can’t over power wins. I think this is probably the best solution. And then our details will reflect this as our ilvl would adjust when we zone into PVP and our end game results on the victory or defeat window will be the same. We would have a clear understanding.
The sad part is that players should have been working to request a change on this PvP scaling earlier in BFA. Hopefully blizzard still has time to before shadow lands starts. I want to feel like my choices for gear impact my character positively for PVP for ilvl and stars, and I want to be motivated to gear up my characters each tier, through the new vender or other means.
I think we all want that.
This post is very fairly written and constructive - unfortunately you still continue to completely miss the fundamental point here. This is a very simple issue. Gems that require great amounts of effort to obtain have been definitively shown to make players worse in PvP combat. That is broken and it is nonsense. What else is there to discuss or debate here? Nobody is pissed because their fully socketed character with 6-7 50 versa gems is only getting a 2% edge instead of a 10% edge. People are pissed because it literally makes you do less damage and take more damage.
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That’s the point of PVP scaling since the start of BFA, to give mythic ilvl equiv players a disadvantage, and give lower ilvl players an advantage.
Essences and preserves are more significant upgrades then ilvl, and ilvl in many situations is not an upgrade but a downgrade. All gems do is raise your ilvl, which downgrades you in some situations.
This is the biggest point, and if the players have issues by not gaining a tiny advantage by ilvl then we need to argue to change the whole system. They might actually normalize gems because the players as a whole don’t seem to grasp the design of PVP scaling, and the easiest way to do that is to just gray gems out. However, that doesn’t mean an ilvl upgrade will be an upgrade going forward, it can be a downgrade. Watch Rextoy’s example of how sometimes an ilvl upgrade is not an upgrade.
You just are continuing to miss the point and you are not remotely engaging with the fundamental problem here. I think this discussion has gone as far as it can - hope you have a great weekend and you and your family stay healthy/safe.
If you equip a 475 piece and that reduces the dmg you do over wearing a 460, and you take more dmg with the 475, isn’t that the main issue? And gems are only shining a light on that main issue?
The system is to complicated and confusing for most players. We need a simpler solution. Wish you a good weekend to.